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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): Puzzles
[PUZZLE] Axons: Relative
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vpisteve
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Joined: 30 Sep 2002
Posts: 2441
Location: 1987

[PUZZLE] Axons: Relative

Quote:
The relative thread supports the faction which believe that the coordinates are literal places, but the surrounding buildings/landmarks/streets/wifi/etc. are the key to the solution. This thread would be a good place to discuss our findings at the locations (and those at the wiki) without bothering the mathematicians.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:06 pm
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Grout
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Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 105

Hey thanks vpisteve!

I hope something like this will work - and not just add to the clutter. Thanks for listening to us. All I ask now is that we stay ON TOPIC in these threads - and we stop the creation of any new threads without Mod approval. Maybe even lock the current ones?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:10 pm
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Grout
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Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 105

Well... I guess I'll start. Or rather continue. In another thread we were talking about the theory that... well - rather than type it all out - here's what has been said:

Quote:
HEY HEY.......

Speaking of my friend handfulofhoneybees...

He just found this little tool:

http://www.geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm?GetLocation

So you CAN find addresses based on people's IPs - it even gives you nice GPS coords in 4 decimal points. It found him precisely. It was way off on me though... this may account for the discrepancies and weird locations.

I'm partially inclined to go back to the "this is us" theory. The queen is trying to hunt us... or at least hunt dana through the people she has been in contact with. The PMs just used a faulty tool to find us?


Quote:
Any tool would be a faulty tool. Any attempt to locate someone from an IP address they have used would be inaccurate at best. And even if you did get some kind of location you would have a high probability of being incorrect.

Even DSL and cable ISP's rotate IP addresses. (Usually so they can charge you extra if you need a static IP.) Sometimes they assign the numbers by region, sometimes not, and usually that info isn't published. Dial up? Forget about it. Even your desktop computer will almost certainly get a new dynamic address each time you reboot. (And that address has a good chance of being in a non-routable IP range, common for most organizations.) Add to the mix things like NAT translation of IP addresses, and VPN use, and things really get complicated.

The bottom line is that the only information you can gather with 100% confidence from an IP address is the company that registered that IP range.

Anyhow, I don't mean to slam on anyone, but rather to bring some technical knowledge to a game that has a bunch already. I'm hoping that the PM's would make the game "correct" technically and not require the suspension of belief (technically) that is required by so many movies and TV shows.


Quote:
I've been playing with the IP locator tool that Grout mentioned for me...

The results seem wildly inaccurate to the user's physical location. For instance, looking up several of the last few dynamic IPs of my home computer (don't ask me how I still have them) told me I had moved between Chicago, Tennessee, and California. However, someone who knows more about this magical 'Internet' thing might be able to tell me what the aforementioned tool is REALLY doing. For instance, is it giving me the coords of the server I'm routing through?

If this is the case I may have to eat my words, to some extent, though others might also. It could be that these GPS locations were culled from a list of our IPs, but the IP lookup tool the PMs used returned servers/backbones/magical internet fairies - thus meaning that the reality lay somewhere between the two theories.

We must follow this lead, even if it takes us to another dead end!

Beekeepers, use this tool http://www.geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm to look up your location! Eventually, we may start seeing overlaps with the posted GPS coordinates.

If we do... well... beats me what we do with it. But at least we'll know where the numbers came from.


Quote:
Here's some text from the FAQ of that IP locator:

Quote:
the purpose of the Geobytes map is to map IP Addresses to geographical locations. To achieve this we acquire seed data from a number of sources. All of these sites ask the web surfer to provide their geographic location, and this location along with the user's IP Address is forwarded to us as seed data. We then run this data through a series of algorithms which identify and extract collaborating seed points.



So what this sounds like is that this thing finds locations by pulling seed info from various sites at which someone has entered their address? Sounds pretty faulty to me - especially with dynamic IPs... BUT there is still the possibility that the PMs used this or a similar tool without knowing any better.


Quote:
But do you guy really think that nobody in Texas was playing? Really? Texas is a big, big state, and the odds of there being so many people in Sedalia MT getting their name's randomly pulled without a single name from TX being drawn seems pretty far fetched to me.

But maybe it's first 220 to e-mail the site and just maybe nobody down here in TX was in that first 220. Odds are way against it, but I guess stranger things have happened.


OK.

Again, thanks for the organization vpi.

Aaaaand... RESUME ARGUMENT! GO!

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:25 pm
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Grout
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Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 105

I'd also like to put a quick plug in for this thread:

http://forums.unfiction.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5598

To aid me in my organization of the relative angle.

"A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself." --Tom Stoppard

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:28 pm
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drizjr
Unfictologist


Joined: 28 Nov 2003
Posts: 1700

OK. Is this the thread to show how players' IP lat/long match one on the Axon list?
If not, please feel free to move this post.
I looked up my own IP on geobytes. Took the lat/long from there and pushed them through MapQuest.
While it is not where I'm sitting at my computer, it matched the map from Row 103/Col 01... off by only six city blocks.
To me, it's close enough to say that Melissa is tracking us down through the emails (OR hits at the ilb site..maybe hits to the site= fireflies)
It fits elegantly into the story.
Remember, in Dana's previous entry to her blog, she chose emails that suggested Melissa might get into our computers.

I won't spec here about the bad news: that by encouraging Dana to email ladybee777, we just gave Melissa her general location. And that it's a good thing that she'll be on the move. (oh.. I just did spec didn't I? Please disregard all that and stick to the subject. Smile )

So, does this hold true for anyone else's IP lat/long location? Does *your* IP closely match one of the axons??
edit: added hits to ilb as being where Melissa gets our IP's from.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:33 pm
Last edited by drizjr on Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:49 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Aelith
Decorated


Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 153
Location: Missouri

Hi Grout. I have some right brain ideas too. I'm liking the payphone angle better since today's email indicated to me that spdr my have posted too many geopoints. I combine that with the tape of Milissia trying to speak as upping the odds for a message on the 24th. So, how many phone citation's have we had so far?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:40 pm
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firefox
Unfettered

Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 333

now that would be kool, on 24th august, at wide awake and physical
at x hours (we need to find out when) at x locations across the us (if we go by payphones) the next step in the game is called in to players. the queen gives a message, the arg begins.

feasible enough. looking into payphones info companies etc in the usa atm.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:47 pm
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Grout
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Joined: 25 Jul 2004
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Aelith wrote:
Hi Grout. I have some right brain ideas too. I'm liking the payphone angle better since today's email indicated to me that spdr my have posted too many geopoints. I combine that with the tape of Milissia trying to speak as upping the odds for a message on the 24th. So, how many phone citation's have we had so far?


Ugh... sorry to continually pick on you Aelith, and not to be the resident OT nazi, but the reason we begged vpi to make these 3 threads was to keep things categorized and OT. I think you want this thread for spec about what happens at the locations on the 24th:

http://forums.unfiction.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5636

THIS thread, if I'm not mistaken, is for the approach that the coords are a PUZZLE - and the key to the solution is the contents of said points. Not that the coords are simply directions to where we need to be on the 24th when something happens. - Though I must admit the titles of the threads are a bit confusing. Relative? Literal?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:54 pm
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Aelith
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Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 153
Location: Missouri

Ouch. Twas your own words that confused me.
Quote:
What if we have to gather the data, then categorize everything


Thought phones was one of the catagories. And the Literal tread had not been created. sorry. Good night.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:06 am
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John Incognito
Boot


Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 27

Seattle Gps cords: They look like they form a arrow or X

Hey guys. new to the whole ARG thing, but I've been keeping up the the Apiary for a while..

I'm pretty jittery as I write this.. I couldn't find any other mention of it with the search so I hope I'm right and I'm not trouting but..

Has anyone noticed the GPS Cordinates form a arrow/cross if you look at them all together?

Here are some links for my evidence.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&address=1021+E+John+St+&city=Seattle&state=WA

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&address=914+E+Mercer+St+&city=Seattle&state=WA

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&address=1316+E+Olive+St+&city=Seattle&state=WA

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&address=1577+6th+Ave+&city=Seattle&state=WA

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&address=1801+Harvard+Ave+&city=Seattle&state=WA

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&address=509+16th+Ave+E+&city=Seattle&state=WA

I know this isn't all of them, but perhaps the idea that they form some sort of larger connect the dots picture as a whole is something that should be looked into.

Extra: At the very least the most of the Seattle GPS cords are very close together.. Which brings up the question why aren't they spread out more?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:11 am
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jbd
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 295

Re: Seattle Gps cords: They look like they form a arrow or X

John Incognito wrote:
Has anyone noticed the GPS Cordinates form a arrow/cross if you look at them all together?


You want this other thread. The thread you're in now is for discussing viewing the puzzle from the standpoint of things at the locations (malls, pay phones, signs, etc).

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:32 am
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Grout
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Joined: 25 Jul 2004
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God I HOPE these threads are organizing things as opposed to just confusing everyone - off to a shaky start.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:14 am
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Grout
Veteran

Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 105

drizjr wrote:
OK. Is this the thread to show how players' IP lat/long match one on the Axon list?
If not, please feel free to move this post.
I looked up my own IP on geobytes. Took the lat/long from there and pushed them through MapQuest.
While it is not where I'm sitting at my computer, it matched the map from Row 103/Col 01... off by only six city blocks.
To me, it's close enough to say that Melissa is tracking us down through the emails (OR hits at the ilb site..maybe hits to the site= fireflies)
It fits elegantly into the story.
Remember, in Dana's previous entry to her blog, she chose emails that suggested Melissa might get into our computers.

I won't spec here about the bad news: that by encouraging Dana to email ladybee777, we just gave Melissa her general location. And that it's a good thing that she'll be on the move. (oh.. I just did spec didn't I? Please disregard all that and stick to the subject. Smile )

So, does this hold true for anyone else's IP lat/long location? Does *your* IP closely match one of the axons??
edit: added hits to ilb as being where Melissa gets our IP's from.


Yeah - this is what I'm thinking might be the case drizjr. Though if you have time... can you help me out by finding out what is exactly AT all the NYC coordinates? No one has logged them to the wiki yet. I think we really need to gather this info - then we will have something to work with.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:30 am
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SpghEddy
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Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 88

map and terrain links

It is useful to do longitude and latitude lookups at mapquest (for street maps) and acmemapper (for sattelite images). Here's a handy excel spreadsheet with all the links precalculated. Just click and go!

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 6:50 am
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firefox
Unfettered

Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 333

thats pretty useful thnks Very Happy Very Happy

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 6:57 am
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