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vpisteve
Asshatministrator

Joined: 30 Sep 2002
Posts: 2441
Location: 1987

[PUZZLE] Axons: Numerical

 Quote: The numerical thread encompasses all those who believe the coordinates can be solved mathematically. Either by: A) disregarding that they are coordinates and using them as a series of numbers to find a hidden message, B) assuming they are coordinates, but using the locations to find new coordinates or a hidden message, C) finding a graphical representation of the coordinates which communicates a mesage or points to a new location.

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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:06 pm
Grout
Veteran

Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 105

Hey thanks vpisteve!

I hope something like this will work - and not just add to the clutter. Thanks for listening to us. All I ask now is that we stay ON TOPIC in these threads - and we stop the creation of any new threads without Mod approval. Maybe even lock the current ones?

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:11 pm
Clipped_Wings
Boot

Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 39
Location: Rugby, England

Right, my theory is one of the coordinates being the end-points of the roads that the spider made.

I think that where the queen wants to get to lies ON the roads, rather than at the end of them.

To prove/disprove my theory I'll need a grant of several thousand pounds (j/k), a big map of america with the important stuff on it (e.g. states, landmarks and the like), or, I might be able to do it mathematically with line equations, but that way people would have to have an idea of what they WANT to lie on the line, then I can see if it does.

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:31 pm
Grout
Veteran

Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 105

I think if you draw a line from SF to ALL of the points - you get quite a bit of coverage - I'm sure there is a ludicrous amount of stuff you could find between there and NYC for example.

Also... One might consider your post verring towards OT - since this thread is pretty much for NUMERICAL theories - treating the coordinates as a math or even word puzzle - i.e. those that believe what is AT the points (or between them) is irrelevant.

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:18 pm
Aelith
Decorated

Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 153
Location: Missouri

Points as radii intersect arcs. Dana mentioned donuts and the truism that all is not always as it appears. :hint, hint:

probably another left brain idea thats going to be ignored like the others. ~sigh~
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:21 pm
Grout
Veteran

Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 105

Well Aelith - you are in the left brain thread... so hopefully not everyone will ignore your idea.

Just me.

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:25 pm
Guest

Since all the other thread's were locked, and this seems the most logical place to put this, I'll go ahead and do it:

 Quote: For days the Queen has been ordering her to build the most extraordinary number of little roads out from the castle. Turns out she was very particular about where she wanted them to go: more particular than the Widow understood. Widow hears, "Build a road," she just starts shoveling. Hard-working old biddy, the Widow, but not the sharpest pin in the cushion. She kept getting into fights with the Flea, when she could SEE him riding around up there on the Queen's shoulder, proud as a lord. The last time they quarreled, the Queen had just discovered the Widow had built one path mindlessly straight INTO THE SEA. This is what I mean about an Arachnid of Very Little Brain.

I mean, if this doesn't slove the puzzle... what does? From the statements about the screw ups, that could be the PM's addmiting, or perhaps we wait untill axons go hot before axons go hot before the co-ordinates will be what we are supposed to interpret, or it's thier way of nuding that we fixed the problem, and we scolded the person that did it. Regardless, it's pretty obvious that we have to plot the points according to the Long. and Lat. of the center of ILB either San Fransisco or the rackspace server location (could be explination of why there are no points in Texas if they are roads.)

What do you guys think?[/b]

Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:16 pm
Clipped_Wings
Boot

Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 39
Location: Rugby, England

 Quote: C) finding a graphical representation of the coordinates which communicates a mesage or points to a new location.

So, that'd be my roads then Grout ¬¬

Anyway, I mean significant stuff, like famous sites in America etc.

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 6:58 am
sherpa
Unfettered

Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 338
Location: cam.ac.uk

 Quote: For days the Queen has been ordering her to build the most extraordinary number of little roads out from the castle. Turns out she was very particular about where she wanted them to go: more particular than the Widow understood. Widow hears, "Build a road," she just starts shoveling. Hard-working old biddy, the Widow, but not the sharpest pin in the cushion. She kept getting into fights with the Flea, when she could SEE him riding around up there on the Queen's shoulder, proud as a lord. The last time they quarreled, the Queen had just discovered the Widow had built one path mindlessly straight INTO THE SEA. This is what I mean about an Arachnid of Very Little Brain.

Regardless, it's pretty obvious that we have to plot the points according to the Long. and Lat. of the center of ILB either San Fransisco or the rackspace server location (could be explination of why there are no points in Texas if they are roads.)

I've been out for a day or so (just after the updates, grr) so here's my take on it. Let's just point out from the start that I'm a mathematician/computer scientist by training (degree, am currently in AI research) and am based in the UK so don't want to believe any of the "show up and ..." or relative theories. This thread/theoryset's right up my street.

I find it strange, the mixing of metaphor and reality in the quote above from the SP.

Castle - metaphor for server.
Sea - fairly literal, since one location was in the sea.

I think the sea thing can be discounted as a nod to us spotting it in the wrong place and the PMs fixing it. So my hunch is that this is all a metaphor for something. The coordinates may be actual GPS co-ords but are of more relevance as hints to something more.. virtual. One thing nobody can really decide on is "where is the castle", although we have enough clues to narrow it down to one of two precise but very separate physical locations. We also know its virtual location and that is fixed and always has been. So why can't the co-ords resolve into virtual locations? Sure, not everything at the end of each axon may have a website (has anyone checked? Though I think this is more a relative question than a mathematical one), but is there any other way of resolving GPS co-ordinates into IP addresses or URLs?

I think the axons are virtual, are traceroutes and packet hops not I-roads. I think the locations were chosen carefully, perhaps locations chosen before the virtual part set up; but what would the fact that the sea point is erroneous tell us? (That part's what I don't really get, if I'm going to go all-out mathematical on its ass. So to speak.)

I don't want this to become an endless discussion of the Internet backbone theory (which I totally don't subscribe to), but has anyone had more thoughts on the reality-virtual-metaphor links that are present?

(As a note on my endeavours so far, I've been looking at distances and word patterns in the co-ords, distances and actual locations, so far to little avail. My next thought is to plot a join the dots map going from R1C1-R1C2-R2C1-R2C2-etc, which I haven't seen done so far; I've only seen pairs, not connected pairs. But I'm leaving that until it's not a hot Saturday afternoon )
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Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:26 am
msekolpsu
Veteran

Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 119

Because this is the numerical blog, I'm reposting the math here. Relating to the significance of 220 coordinates:

The significance of 220? Not divisible by 3 or 7, but 220, 110, 55, 44, 22, 20, 11, 10, 5, 4, 2 and 1. When you add 110+55+44+22+20+11+10+5+4+2+1 = 284, now read the following:

Anyone heard of amicable (friendly) numbers? The simplest type involves pairs of numbers so that the sum of the proper factors of each number is equal to the other number. This immediately suggests comparison with friendship in psychological terms based on two people sharing complementary personality characteristics. The best known amicable pair comprises 220 and 284. The sum of this pair = 504, which is the product of three consecutive numbers (6 * 7 * . Also, if we take the reverses of 220 and 284 (i.e. 022 and 482) and add we again get 504.

Maybe we're either looking for weird math like this or perhaps only the columns
1+2+4+5+10+11+20+22+44+55+110
are significant.

Also, if you're looking for that 7, the significance of 5913 (on Dana's blog) is that

1! + 2! + 3! + 4! + 5! + 6! + 7! = 5913

or

(1x1) + (2x1) + (3x2x1) + (4x3x2x1) + (5x4x3x2x1) + (6x5x4x3x2x1) + (7x6x5x4x3x2x1) = 5913

1+2+6+24+120+720+5040

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:13 pm
Guest

 sherpa wrote: Castle - metaphor for server. Roads - either metaphor for connections/axons, or literal 'roads' Sea - fairly literal, since one location was in the sea.

If I recall correctly, most if not all the WP's are on roads? Which would lead me to believe that the roads are indeed literal and not metaphorical.

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:54 pm
Lorre
Greenhorn

Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 9

 sherpa wrote: Castle - metaphor for server. Roads - either metaphor for connections/axons, or literal 'roads' Sea - fairly literal, since one location was in the sea.

If I recall correctly, most if not all the WP's are on roads? Which would lead me to believe that the roads are indeed literal and not metaphorical.

Following that theory, what if we calculate the distance between the points (pairs) on a routeplanner, instead of in straight line, that way we have a distance between them over roads...

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:04 pm
Guest

Lorre wrote:
 sherpa wrote: Castle - metaphor for server. Roads - either metaphor for connections/axons, or literal 'roads' Sea - fairly literal, since one location was in the sea.

If I recall correctly, most if not all the WP's are on roads? Which would lead me to believe that the roads are indeed literal and not metaphorical.

Following that theory, what if we calculate the distance between the points (pairs) on a routeplanner, instead of in straight line, that way we have a distance between them over roads...

Exactly what I was thinking, but I moved this disscusion over to the literal thread, since it doesn't really have anything to do with Math anymore...

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:12 pm
Anton P. Nym
Unfettered

Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 550

Just a quick caution, folks, to remember who's writing this. (I mean in front of the curtain, of course.)

All the characters we're interacting with are AIs. All of them "live" inside computer networks. All of them "see" the world in terms of data transmission and software.

Anything not expressly linked to physical world objects should be seen in THEIR light, not ours, when interpreting what was said. Which means in terms of server ports, switch commands, packets, traceroutes, system calls, etc.

You have to account for the witness's biases, or you'll never get a clear picture of what's going on. And AIs can't help but be biased towards a systems-based viewpoint.

-- Steve hopes that this'll help people keep on track with SPEC... he knows it's too danged easy to get blown hither and yon by the winds of inspiration.
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Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:19 pm
Grout
Veteran

Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 105

Clipped_Wings wrote:
 Quote: C) finding a graphical representation of the coordinates which communicates a mesage or points to a new location.

So, that'd be my roads then Grout ¬¬

Anyway, I mean significant stuff, like famous sites in America etc.

Ok clipped... We can talk roads in here- My distinction was that the relative thread had to do with clues that are physical objects and numerical thread dealt with # clues and picture clues... but damn if it isn't hard to figure out what is on topic in these threads... Just TRY YOUR BEST everyone to keep things organized - or we won't solve this. I'll try to be less of a OT nazi from now on.

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:17 pm
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