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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » 10Cloverfield Lane
[META] Game Criticism, Complaints, Comments
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gimlet
Unfettered

Joined: 20 Jan 2016
Posts: 358

Well, that wasn't really what I was responding to, but yes in an ideal world an ARG would be all things to all people. I say "minutia and puzzles" because that's my prejudice, but a better way of putting it might be "worldbuilding and challenge."

Ideally this ARG might have had pathos, insight, worldbuilding and challenge but this one didn't and I'm ok with it because what it did have was (mostly) quite well done and ultimately this thing is just really elaborate marketing.

It's lovely that Bad Robot wants to give fans of it's products such immersive gifts, but lets be real here: ultimately the goal is to get butts in seats and keep them coming back, not give each of us the perfect self encapsulated ARG experience. For free.

This ARG does not exist in a vacum. It's there to support the movie. It has been since the beginning. That's what it is, that's what it's always been, that's what all Bad Robot ARGs are. I'm not sure why anyone expect's any different?

As to playing the ARG changing the viewers experience of the movie, I think... Well, yeah. That's the point. It's like the difference between reading the book before you see the movie, or seeing a prequel before seeing a sequel - like many kids experience of Star Wars is totally different than my generations - but apparently no less rich!

It's not necessarily a worse experience, it's just a different one. But we have free will there. I mean, I chose to not read Watchman before the movie, and as a result actually quite enjoyed myself. You can choose not to play the ARG if you feel like it's going to taint your relationship with the movie.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:27 pm
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Nixeclips13
Boot

Joined: 19 Jan 2016
Posts: 21

Gimlet, that's the way I try to explain the appeal of following the game. It gives you a little more backstory into the world of the movie. You don't need it, but it can enhance the experience.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:52 pm
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Pixiestix
Resident Angry Midget


Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 2458
Location: Tomorrow's Talk Studios

gimlet wrote:
This ARG does not exist in a vacum. It's there to support the movie. It has been since the beginning. That's what it is, that's what it's always been, that's what all Bad Robot ARGs are. I'm not sure why anyone expect's any different?


I doubt I am going to be very articulate here. Bear with me. Or not... We know I like to see myself type so....

In the history of the genre, most of the big name well known ARGs have been promotional campaigns. Some good, some bad. Look at the perfect example already given, The Beast - it was made to get butts in the seats for "A.I." - it had so much more depth than this ARG, and stood on it's own, you didn't need one to enjoy the other.

Another very famous example - "ILoveBees" was made to support Halo 3, and I LOVED it, and thankfully didn't need to know jack shit about the Halo universe nor did I need to play the video game after the ARG ended.

Don't get me wrong - I found this one enjoyable, BUT I agree that an ARG that you can't figure out without some knowledge of that it is supporting can be quite exclusionary and unenjoyable. It doesn't have to be, and I do think expectations one way or the other play a huge role in that enjoyment.

This was barely an ARG in the sense of, outside of two opportunities for dead drops, and the communications with The Mother, there was very little in the way of "game". This, to me, was more Immersive Fiction, or Alternate Reality Experience at best.

As for your "for free" statement - you will be hard pressed to find many pay-for-ARGs. The model exists {Perplex City for example}, but there have been very little of them. Something being "for free" does not exclude it from expectations and criticism, and obviously from failures.

What I feel they did right:
~ Granted I prefer that all communications between players and PM teams during a game remain in game, I'm okay with the sly communications from the PM team via twitter or instagram {once we figured out that's what it was}.
~ When the simulation game was "hacked" they went in and fixed it, and found a way to make it in game.
~ When the phone hacking fiasco went down, they either switched to Plan B, or they simply abandoned it and moved onto the next "scene".
~ Dead Drops!!!!! They are becoming less a thing these days, because of entitled unappreciative swag hunters. I miss the excitement of cheering someone on to go and get something important to share with everyone virtually.

What bugged the crap out of me:
~ They claim it wasn't, but the entire thing felt like an after thought, and that they were rushing players because they frakked up their own timeline.
~ The lack of playability. I miss ARGS! I miss puzzles, and true collaboration. With few exceptions, it felt more like we were grasping at straws and trying to figure out the plot of the film in order to put together what we were supposed to be doing. Until the character interaction with The Mother at the end, we had no affect on anything, nothing real to do {and no, playing a sim side game doesn't count, that's like saying you are playing Warcraft when all you do is log in and play the Plants vs Zombies subgame}.

I didn't follow the original ARG well enough apparently, there was a WHOLE lot more to it than I remembered {I still say, who the frak eats a mysterious substance you get in the mail, let alone crap sent to you by someone you think is a liar, cheat, and is breaking up with you??? Am I the only person with a sane tin foil hat solidly in place to go "could be a drug or could be poison" but, I digress far too often...} and I hope this one continues to a satisfying conclusion. But right now, the PM team is moving like molassas {Shouldn't something have come from Howard by now about what NR posted??? Come on, Howard wouldn't just sit on that!}.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:02 pm
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Melodyman
Entrenched

Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 939
Location: Los Angeles

Well put Pixie..

For me it was frustrating having been involved with the first films game which was really fun and immersive I was hoping for them to build on that.. hell, I was actually hoping that BR would make a sequel using the Ganu Yoshida Seabed Nectar/Slusho drink causes folks to turn into monsters angle and freak us all out.. But it seems that so many players remembered the involvement we got in game 1 that suddenly we were all looking for kloos and hidden meanings in places they were hidden in game 1 but not here.. So every time there was a new picture or screen shot or trailer everyone assumed there were hidden kloos only to find none.. I mean some of the things some peeps were seeing and chasing down were hysterical.. To sum up.. They could have really come up with a great ride here but the time constraits and secrecy seem to have made that impossible.. Still, In the end, I hope the hacking shennanigans and swag hunters didnt dissuade BR from doing more games in the future... speaking of which, Shouldnt we be looking for something from the next Star Trek Beyond flick? Fingers crossed..

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:21 pm
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ObFuSc8
Decorated

Joined: 11 Aug 2011
Posts: 203

Pixiestix wrote:
Am I the only person with a sane tin foil hat solidly in place to go "could be a drug or could be poison" but, I digress far too often...} and I hope this one continues to a satisfying conclusion. But right now, the PM team is moving like molassas {Shouldn't something have come from Howard by now about what NR posted??? Come on, Howard wouldn't just sit on that!}.


Heh, I don't think Howie's just sitting on the info - I'm guessing he's going through his final prep to bunker-down. And he did post on LPI & "try" to call Megan's burner.

I'm hoping there's a little something today, and maybe a wee tidbit that extends past the film's release.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:33 pm
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Pixiestix
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Joined: 26 Aug 2004
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Location: Tomorrow's Talk Studios

I thought Howard's update to LPI was before NR's chat post.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:47 pm
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Melodyman
Entrenched

Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 939
Location: Los Angeles

Pixiestix wrote:
I thought Howard's update to LPI was before NR's chat post.


Naw Pixie.. Other way round.. In his LPI post Howie references " I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN DECIPHER WHAT N SENT." so he must have seen the FaPT post first..

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:53 pm
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ObFuSc8
Decorated

Joined: 11 Aug 2011
Posts: 203

Pixiestix wrote:
I thought Howard's update to LPI was before NR's chat post.

I remember it coming afterwards. And the LPI post references NR's FAPT post, "I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN DECIPHER WHAT N SENT. IF YOU CAN YOU’LL SEE."

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:53 pm
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Pixiestix
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ObFuSc8 wrote:
I remember it coming afterwards. And the LPI post references NR's FAPT post, "I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN DECIPHER WHAT N SENT. IF YOU CAN YOU’LL SEE."

OOOOH OMG lol, I read that wrong. I got so used to his typos, my brain read that as "what i sent" multiple times. I assumed that it has something to do with the cellphone. wow, i'm duuuumb lol
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:00 pm
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gimlet
Unfettered

Joined: 20 Jan 2016
Posts: 358

I mean, I know & agree with everything you're saying Pixie...

I started this criticism thread, remember? Plenty of criticism to go around.

But at the same time, telling corporate marketers not to market with their marketing projects? Not gonna happen. They don't care about whether something is Argy enough for arg fans, they care about butts in seats. Bad Robot ARGs are all some variation of Remember to Drink your Slush-O/Go see the movie already.

In that context, we should know what we're getting to some extent, and not be surprised or disapointed when we that is exactly what we get.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:19 pm
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AntaresMHD
Veteran


Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 145

Melodyman wrote:
Pixiestix wrote:
I thought Howard's update to LPI was before NR's chat post.


Naw Pixie.. Other way round.. In his LPI post Howie references " I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN DECIPHER WHAT N SENT." so he must have seen the FaPT post first..

I went to check LPI thinking it was another update after yesterday but it's the same text, I don't know how I overlooked it... Must be the all caps writing, I am sure it's meant to look all paranoid but it just gets into my nerves and makes it unreadable to me sometimes... Sad

gimlet wrote:
But at the same time, telling corporate marketers not to market with their marketing projects? Not gonna happen. They don't care about whether something is Argy enough for arg fans, they care about butts in seats.

True, but back when the Cloverfield ARG was on, it didn't stop when the movie was released, it kept going until it ended with that underwater picture of the clover-parasites crawling around. That sort of thing wasn't at all necessary for the movie and it shows they had a lot of things planned, but at the same time it was a display of creativity that kept people going and made the whole thing memorable... Which they DIDN'T have to do, at that point the movie was well off, that sort of thing wasn't gonna make more people watch the movie specially since it would have been too cryptic for those who hadn't followed the ARG from the beginning.

I said it before and I'll say it again: they knew this movie was a go since November 2015, and probably way before that, they had enough time to set up a fully encompassing ARG, and they sat on it until the first trailer was out. Maybe it's what they thought to be the best way to go about it, see if the trailer garnered enough interest to come up with something, but clearly it didn't go as well as it could have.[/quote]

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:12 pm
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Pixiestix
Resident Angry Midget


Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 2458
Location: Tomorrow's Talk Studios

gimlet wrote:
But at the same time, telling corporate marketers not to market with their marketing projects? Not gonna happen. They don't care about whether something is Argy enough for arg fans, they care about butts in seats. Bad Robot ARGs are all some variation of Remember to Drink your Slush-O/Go see the movie already.


No one was saying that, in the least. Although, a good marketer pushes beyond a previously established fan base. And all ad camps are "drink your ovaltine", so that's more than a moot point in saying "bad robot ares are this way. It doesn't negate the point being made here that they could have done more.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:39 pm
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gimlet
Unfettered

Joined: 20 Jan 2016
Posts: 358

I didn't say anyone said that, I was clearly speaking hypothetically but you did say:

Pixiestix wrote:

In the history of the genre, most of the big name well known ARGs have been promotional campaigns. Some good, some bad. Look at the perfect example already given, The Beast - it was made to get butts in the seats for "A.I." - it had so much more depth than this ARG, and stood on it's own, you didn't need one to enjoy the other.

Another very famous example - "ILoveBees" was made to support Halo 3, and I LOVED it, and thankfully didn't need to know jack shit about the Halo universe nor did I need to play the video game after the ARG ended.

Don't get me wrong - I found this one enjoyable, BUT I agree that an ARG that you can't figure out without some knowledge of that it is supporting can be quite exclusionary and unenjoyable. It doesn't have to be, and I do think expectations one way or the other play a huge role in that enjoyment.


Implying that args should be self-encapsulated and not rely on the media they are promoting to be played. I agree that would be nice in a perfect world, but ultimately pretty unlikely for marketers to do. It would be nice if we didn't have to buy the thing/play the game/see the movie to enjoy an ARG, but it would defeat the purpose of why we have been given it to play in the first place.

Also, Antares, I agree with all that, in fact I have been saying it since the beginning. And Dan implied in his AMA that this might go on a little bit yet.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:59 pm
Last edited by gimlet on Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cherry
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Joined: 25 Feb 2016
Posts: 184
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AntaresMHD wrote:

I said it before and I'll say it again: they knew this movie was a go since November 2015, and probably way before that, they had enough time to set up a fully encompassing ARG, and they sat on it until the first trailer was out. Maybe it's what they thought to be the best way to go about it, see if the trailer garnered enough interest to come up with something, but clearly it didn't go as well as it could have.
[/quote]

I'm just hoping this one being a sort of ARG-lite will mean hat the next one will be sprawling. God Particle would give them a huge opportunity to do something amazing.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:06 pm
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dmax
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Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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Location: Location: Location!

I appreciate that a lot of work goes into the planning and execution of an ARG. (One day we still might launch one that some others and I half-formed. Parts of it - my parts - were brilliant.)

But Pixie and catherwoo and I all have the same "thanks, but..." Feeling, each articulated in our own way.
gimlet, it's obvious you're invested in this one - check out how many posts you've made since Jan 20 - but I don't feel like it's fair to say things that sound a lot like "if you don't get this, I wish you did."
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:36 pm
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