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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » 10Cloverfield Lane
[META] Game Criticism, Complaints, Comments
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gimlet
Unfettered

Joined: 20 Jan 2016
Posts: 358


You may or may not want to know how the sausage gets made.

Melodyman wrote:
Looks like Dennis has come up with some really clear pics of the trailer shots .. ass well as the trailers on you tube it seems..we were missing some numbers.. Working...

http://cloverfieldclues.blogspot.com/2016/02/hidden-images-from-10-cloverfield-lane.html#more

Clearly no doubt now.. Still dont know what order..and what is that weird skull pic on the right footballers shirt?

Still puts me at Covington LA..


Ugh. CLOVERFIELD CLUES with the Secret knowledge AGAIN. This is REALLY frustrating. Like, if you have a short time frame for your arg GIVE PEOPLE CLUES ITS NOT ILLEGAL FOR THEM TO fricken COLLECT. I just ugghhhhhhhhh.

I don't really feel like we're playing this ARG so much as Cloverfield Clues is, and we get to watch. Which is farcical.

Also, why not use NATO alphabet for naval images?

And there are so many fricken images buried on YouTube, that's exactly where you put things you want buried, not found. I googled Sailor Monkey, so fricken often. It was not there, or couldn't be found easily a week ago.

It actually seems like they put these up right around when we asked them to as people were heading out to go take a look at places, and we didn't want them to tresspass. Still, if they were gonna help us out like that you'd think they'd draw our attention to it. They have that scene with John Gallagher holding up the video they could have used and everything. Turn that into a gif and there you go. Like communicate with us directly, don't hand spoon us information through an intermediary who's supposed to be our peer (and clearly isn't).
/rant

Well, anyways, we have what looks like a dead drop again. Exciting. Sigh.

EDIT https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Army/Navy_Phonetic_Alphabet

Ok, that explains that at least.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:31 am
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Pixiestix
Resident Angry Midget


Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 2445
Location: Tomorrow's Talk Studios

Bad PM team!!! Bad bad bad! If you can't find a way to communicate all information needed to your players through your game, you designed it poorly!!! Shame on you! Dennis, it's not your fault, not mad at you, but you are being used as a puppet here and hats just shitty workmanship on their part.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:45 am
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kosmopol
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 3151

Well, it's often practice PMs do, if they feel players don't get it. Not the nice practice, though.

I recall back to 2007, somebody random and unknown commented my blog with link to Chuai news. It was like, "look, what I've found". It was not the best way to spread clues, even if this Chuai news part is my favorite.

Better way is to make small puzzle or quizz, so people can find out. It's not complicated or time consuming - I know it as PM of some grassroots.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:04 am
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Pixiestix
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Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 2445
Location: Tomorrow's Talk Studios

kosmopol wrote:
Well, it's often practice PMs do, if they feel players don't get it. Not the nice practice, though.

It's a practic that only bad PMs do with a bad game design. And it is always frowned upon. You have a time limit? You find a better way to share clues. You don't whisper them in some meta bloggers ear in a meta way. It's a huge reason why PMs aren't allowed to post here in their own game threads.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:23 am
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gimlet
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Joined: 20 Jan 2016
Posts: 358

Pixiestix wrote:
kosmopol wrote:
Well, it's often practice PMs do, if they feel players don't get it. Not the nice practice, though.

It's a practic that only bad PMs do with a bad game design. And it is always frowned upon. You have a time limit? You find a better way to share clues. You don't whisper them in some meta bloggers ear in a meta way. It's a huge reason why PMs aren't allowed to post here in their own game threads.


Yup. It's why I love reading about how someone like Valve builds their Video Games. They playtest those things to hell and back. If a player can't get past something, can't figure it out on their own, that's on YOU as designer. You didn't make the steps getting there clear enough. Ideally you do that through giving the player, strong in game hints - CLUES through game play - not through the developer sending someone into your home, grabbing the controller from you and doing it for you themselves.

EDIT:
Reddit bravely heads out once again

https://www.reddit.com/r/10cloverfieldlane/comments/46krq3/after_long_consideration_i_am_heading_to_the_new/

Good luck guys!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:36 am
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IronJ146
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Joined: 29 Jul 2007
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Location: Atlanta, Georgia, United States

I'm gonna advocate for the devil here. Of all the combinations of coordinates we came up with based on pictures posted from movies trailers before the videos were posted; if what we were supposed to be pointed to is this horse business, then this was completely solvable and we just didn't do it in time.

In hindsight (which is always 20/20 of course), I kinda feel like this was a "Here are coordinates, use the satellites to find this place" situation. I mean, how close were we, you know? Close enough to send a person none of us know out to a place we've never been that could turn out to be exactly where we were supposed to look.

Then, to push us along, they slipped info to Dennis, who's one of us, when they easily could've slipped it to, say, /Film or some other prominent film blog. YouTube is a huge hub, so why not put stuff there? I don't know if there's an ARG I've participated in that HASN'T put stuff on YouTube.

If they're consistently updating on Thursdays, then that means they're on a schedule that requires us to keep up. If we're not keeping up, they have to push us along or risk missing some other coordinated aspect of the experience. The film has a firm release date, so it's not like we have a deadline we can miss.

Like they said themselves: You win some, you lose some. We're better off shaking this one off and moving on rather than complaining about it. There could be much cooler experiences moving forward.

EDIT: Just saw the reddit post about them going back out to the spot. Fingers crossed.

EDIT 2: Apparently there's a Geogache on that property already, meaning it's open to the public. Okay, now I'm excited.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:22 am
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John_Goodmans_Face
Greenhorn

Joined: 17 Feb 2016
Posts: 8

I, personally, am OK with this particular "spoon feeding". We weren't going to get clearer images from the trailers. Keep in mind we thought we had the football number, when we were actually missing half of it. We needed these and there's only so much time left in the ARG.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:56 am
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Pixiestix
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I think the point is being missed, any time a PM has to go meta to get a point across, be it posting on uf or Reddit, be it saying in an interview or passing info to a blogger - that's bad game design. Period. Am I grateful right that they did pass info to Dennis? Yes, because their game was designed badly and this was the only way to move forward. Is it a horrible way to run an ARG? After well over a decade playing these things, I can say with all certainty, yes it is. This was their frack up. And honestly, not the first time BR has had poor game design. You can debate, and play DA all you want, the fact remains they had to pull back the curtain to move the game forward.


Paramount or BR thought "hey, let's make people shell out extra money to go so some other films of ours in a sorta cross promotion." Fine, I can accept that - but the execution was horrible. If you are going to do that, and you need people to gather clues from this item, don't flash an image people can't see clearly. Bad design. They couldn't put the images online, because what would be the motivation for people to pay to see the trailers in the theater otherwise? So they should have been clearer, period.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:15 am
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John_Goodmans_Face
Greenhorn

Joined: 17 Feb 2016
Posts: 8

ah i get ya. I havent played many of these. I'm just happy to be here lol. I try and participate, but usually these things are over my head, so i lurk mostly. i see what the grievance is, and i agree. it should be more clear and the PM shoulnt NEED to help us.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:28 am
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IronJ146
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Pixiestix wrote:


Paramount or BR thought "hey, let's make people shell out extra money to go so some other films of ours in a sorta cross promotion." Fine, I can accept that - but the execution was horrible. If you are going to do that, and you need people to gather clues from this item, don't flash an image people can't see clearly. Bad design. They couldn't put the images online, because what would be the motivation for people to pay to see the trailers in the theater otherwise? So they should have been clearer, period.


I agree with you here, for sure. I mean, ultimately, big games like this aren't much more than marketing to begin with for TPTB. We were already anticipating this with these trailers, which takes some of the "wait, what was that?" mystique away which what makes these things fun in the first place.


EDIT: HE FOUND SOMETHING !!!

Quote:
I'll upload as soon as possible but I found a 1344 cartridge case filled with survival gear, a note, a USB drive, and more!!! I guess I take the whole thing?! I didn't expect this!


PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:29 am
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danteIL
Unfictologist


Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1989

while I wait semi-patiently to see what was found...

I have to say that I don't feel as harshly about this situation as Pixie. I mean -- embedding the flashes in the trailers was very cool and forced people to get creative to collect them and try to analyze them. I like that kind of real-world transmedia hoo-hah.

But it isn't clear whether or not they had a "fallback" plan if and when it became obvious the trailer information was too hard to decipher by itself. I myself was calling upon them directly to release hi-res versions of these into the wild, so I'm not surprised to see them show up on YouTube. BUT there should have been an in-game way of directing us to YouTube if that is the method they settled upon to convey this necessary information. That's what I found annoying.

However, I think it's actually pretty amazing and impressive that we came as close as we did to the coordinates, even when guessing on the order and not having all of the digits. Yay us!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:43 am
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wyokid
Boot

Joined: 08 Feb 2016
Posts: 28

I agree, they just gave us a little push and you still had to find the trailers on YouTube. We're running out of time and the game needs to move forward. You win some, you lose some Wink

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:47 am
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robdeez
Boot

Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 16
Location: San Diego

Maybe I'm missing something here, but other than Dennis discovering some YouTube videos, what makes people think he was spoon fed information directly from the source?

Maybe I'm ignorant, but if there's some obvious evidence that that's what happened I don't see it.

If someone here would've discovered the YouTube videos first would we be assuming that they were being fed the info?

YouTube has a search bar and Sailor Monkey seems like a pretty obvious thing to try.

Anyway. Covington. Go.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:55 am
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gimlet
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Joined: 20 Jan 2016
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wyokid wrote:
I agree, they just gave us a little push and you still had to find the trailers on YouTube. We're running out of time and the game needs to move forward. You win some, you lose some Wink


No: you didn't have to find them. Cloverfield Clues found them for us, after he was explicitly told about them, then only shared that info after the heavy lifting was done.

Or at least it really seems that way haven waken up to this new data.

When it could have been hinted to us that something might be on YouTube 3 days ago, and used our hive mind to do it ourselves. Which what's just fracking sportsmanlike, let alone good game design.

Again, no hard feelings to Cloverfield Clues. He's doing as best he can given a crappy situation. (To spell things out for the guy asking, he has a contact with Bad Robot and EVERY confirmation and lead we've gotten has come from him which has moved beyond suspicious to actual conspiracy).

This whole thing is just so so so disrespectful to the player base, and it puts a bad taste in my mouth.

Edit: maybe we should just start a thread called complaint box or something to quarantine the criticism. I don't want to detract from the fun games stuff we're actually getting, but some legit criticism is inevitable at this point.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:08 pm
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CloverfieldClues.com
Entrenched


Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 757

robdeez wrote:
If someone here would've discovered the YouTube videos first would we be assuming that they were being fed the info?


This.

There seems to be a lot of anger because the PMs released the videos on YouTube? I've always assumed they would be posted online at some point, I find it strange that they were only released yesterday and they didn't release them sooner...

I agree that I don't know how they expected anyone to figure this out just from screenshots of movie theater screens.

gimlet wrote:
Cloverfield Clues found them for us ... then only shared that info after the heavy lifting was done.


All the heavy lifting had already been done in the forums. We already knew that it was most likely GPS coordinates, it just seems like we were missing something...

That's my bad for not sharing my discovery of the first video sooner. I guess there's a fine line between wanting to get credit for finding something and getting accused of being spoon fed information.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:46 pm
Last edited by CloverfieldClues.com on Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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