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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[OT] Info for Newcomers: DO NOT RESPOND TO FAKE ENTRIES
Moderators: Giskard, JKatkina, Zarggg
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Cougar Draven
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Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Posts: 1190
Location: Potentially everywhere.

Christ, I leave for three hours and lo and behold, the argument is worse. EDIT: And thank you, punxtr, for the level head.

JKatkina wrote:
CougarDraven wrote:
Also, for the life of me I can't find a single troll and/or spam thread on the front page. So your alarmist rhetoric is kind of pointless right now.

I'm going to point out here that that is because I've been dealing with them. There would be a steady spattering if I hadn't been actively tagging and merging them. It is a problem, and a frequent one.


I know you have. Trust me, I remember what it was like eight months ago.

awakeasaurusrex wrote:
Cougar Draven wrote:
awakeasaurusrex wrote:
So, how do I go about deleting a troll thread when I'm not a mod? Answer: I can't. I can ignore it, but if a troll decides to just bombard the board with new threads so all the good, constructive discussions get shoved off the front page, that's an issue which the rank-and-file users simply aren't empowered to deal with.


Then make the good, constructive discussions more active so they stay up top. Make the trolls work to keep whatever advantage they think they have.
Crucial difference: a troll can keep generating junk posts without putting any thought into them. When we make good, constructive posts we actually have to think about it. So on that basis, any individual troll can generate junk at a far greater pace than we can keep decent discussions going - and that's before you even get to people using scripts.


So you're saying that because it's more work for you to be constructive than for a troll to not, you won't.

awakeasaurusrex wrote:
Quote:
And most of all, be constructive yourself, instead of just complaining all the damn time. Again, maybe if you put more effort into adding to the forum than you do detracting from moderators that are doing what they can, this problem wouldn't be so bad.

Have you checked my post history? Until recently I've been extremely constructive. That's changed. Why's it changed? Because the atmosphere on here has become completely poisoned. The trolls are only partially to blame; the abdication of responsibility from the admins and mods is what's got me really pissed off.

Seriously, I've got hundreds of posts on this forum and only a fraction of them are complaining about you. But hey, keep making grossly inaccurate accusations about my participation on the forum and who knows, maybe the complaint posts will catch up.


And honestly, I don't give much of a damn what you were posting like before. Right now, you're causing a ruckus, and as far as I can tell, the only thing you've got to complain about is that it's not perfect.

awakeasaurusrex wrote:
Quote:
Also, for the life of me I can't find a single troll and/or spam thread on the front page. So your alarmist rhetoric is kind of pointless right now.

A single troll with the right tools could devastate the front page at any moment in the current situation. I'm just warning you of this now so that you can't turn around to say "But we didn't know!" if and when it does happen.


Well, if (not when) it does happen, J will be there to delete threads en masse and/or merge them into a single thread the way that has been done already. If not, you'll just have to deal for a little bit until it gets done. That's the way it was when there were no active mods, and this wasn't a huge fuckin' deal then. You already know why your moderator may or may not be active. Are you going to say that they do not deserve to have a life, and need to be policing this forum around the clock?

awakeasaurusrex wrote:
Quote:
Also, you didn't "just [have] to respond" to anything I've said. It was your choice. And perhaps I'm just involved in this because, as a moderator on Unfiction, I feel attacked and denigrated by your complaints.
That's interesting, because as a user on Unfiction I feel neglected and abandoned by the mass refusal of the mods to take any sort of attempt to keep the Marble Hornets forum in order, and attacked and denigrated by you and SpaceBass specifically for your high-handed, arrogant, "we know best", "the customer/user is always wrong", buck-passing, blame-shifting, head-in-the-sand attitudes.

Who's to blame for the MH forum being spammed by trolls? Apparently the users! Who's to blame for a chunk of the user base getting pissed off by their complaints and concerns being chucked in the bin by the admin team? Apparently it's also the users? When are you guys going to take responsibility for something that goes wrong around here? Apparently never.


No. The trolls are to blame for the forum being spammed. Not the users, and not the moderators and/or admins. It's next-to-impossible to prevent trolls from posting things without removing the kind of convenience in posting that you enjoy right now. I mean, certainly we could moderate all new threads, that's possible. But that would slow discussion to a halt, and ulimately hurt traffic here. It's not worth it.

And just because the discussion of your concerns doesn't happen directly in front of you, that doesn't mean that it's just "being chucked in the bin". We do talk about this. Quite a lot. It's probably the second-most active topic posted in.

And neither SpaceBass, JKatkina, or myself have ever said "we know best" or "the user is always wrong". That just didn't ever happen. But for the record: if you want your concerns to be taken seriously and acted upon with some measure of speed, try phrasing them in a way that won't make us want to punch a kitten.

awakeasaurusrex wrote:
If you don't like my tone, that'll be something to do with the fact that you and your boss rode in here with a dismissive, insulting tone yourselves. You are the ones who made this discussion get nasty, not me.


Bullshit. You started your bitching before SpaceBass got flustered and responded in kind. Whether or not that was appropriate is not for me to decide, but you are in no position to point fingers. And perhaps I have been dismissive and insulting. That's because in this forum, I'm not a moderator, just another user, and even before I was elevated to that status I would have taken this line. You're whining and complaining because of...hell, I can't even understand why. JKatkina has done a wonderful job of keeping up with the troll posts thus far, and while a second mod would likely make this go down a lot easier, there's almost nothing that's going to eliminate the trolls entirely. This is a fairly large website, likely the largest community dedicated to alternate reality gaming on the Web, and a lot of discussion happens here. Unfortunately for Marble Hornets and the rest of the Slender Man tales, a lot of discussion also happens places like Something Awful and Slender Nation, and there are those there who dislike us, for one reason or another. So these two forums tend to be hit harder.

Also, for the record, I actually have no personal gripe with you. You've, as you've said, been a model poster in the past, and what I'd really like to see is you going back to that and being as constructive and, quite frankly, brilliant as you used to be. So please try not to take my tone personally. I approach nearly everything in this same manner. You could do a quick check of my post history to see that.

awakeasaurusrex wrote:
I could, as you point out, have walked away at any time. But then I'd have capitulated and let you off the hook, and I can't do that. You guys have screwed up and you need someone willing to tell it to you straight that you have, in fact, screwed up. And since a good many other reasonable people who would otherwise have done a great job of it have actually left this forum because of your dismissive and arrogant response to this situation, I guess it's going to have to be me.


You haven't said anything other than "you have screwed up". You haven't offered solutions, you haven't said what about the actions taken are "screwing up", you've just complained. And I think therein lies the problem. You don't see the work being done behind the scenes, and so, rationally, you don't necessarily think that there is being work done. But there is.

awakeasaurusrex wrote:
JKatkina wrote:
What I am trying here is some leadership and the establishment of some simple social norms, such as "don't feed the trolls", and to that end there has been progress. If we make it socially unacceptable to reply to troll threads, people will eventually stop. Sure, people might bitch about their inboxes getting full of "DON'T POST IN TROLL THREADS" messages, but odds are 10 to 1 that they'll stop posting in troll threads, too. That's one big step in the right direction.

Given that the trolls have now realised that they can quite happily feed themselves, the "Don't post in troll threads" rule is now so completely redundant, meaningless, and ineffectual that I'm absolutely flabbergasted that you're still raising it. Since you've now been told directly that it's OK for you to merge, lock, or delete troll threads even if there is a reply or two in there from a regular user, all the "Don't post in troll threads" rule achieves is getting self-appointed deputies to bombard other forum users - often innocent newbies - with PMs, some of which apparently got quite heated.

Good job getting the users to turn on each other there, mods. Really. The troll or trolls must be ecstatic at this development.


I read the suggestion that users PM others to ask them not to post in troll threads. If done appropriately, that would work great. However, as you've said, these discussions have gotten heated. Therefore, though it'll make more work, you can PM me lists of people that have posted in threads, and I will take the time to respond to them each, personally, and explain to them as respectfully as I can why replying to those threads is difficult for us. And I'll keep an eye on this forum, more than I already do, so that I can catch some ahead of time. I'm willing to take the extra time to do this as someone in a position of authority, if that will make things easier for you.

awakeasaurusrex wrote:
Quote:
The other thing I am doing is working with what I've been given. If this were my forum, I'd run it differently, but it's not, and them's the breaks. I prefer to respect the rules of the land when I can. It's pretty clear debating on the matter isn't really going to end with policy changing, so it makes perfect sense to try another solution in the meantime.

Well, if a coup d'etat were in the offing I'd be willing to support it.

No, seriously: if someone with a sensible attitude to administration and moderation were given control of this site and the current bosses resigned, I'd donate immediately.


Unfortunately, all that would do is shut down Unfiction entirely. That's not a tenable idea in the slightest, and really, I do agree with J. If this were my forum, I'd run it differently, but it's not, and so I follow the rules as given. So should you. After this, I can't help but think that if the rules here are not to your liking, then perhaps you should follow NickJackal and others and take a leave of absence. I would regret that, as it would be losing yet another quality member over something so very petty, but it is what it is, and going round and round about this is only going to make things worse.

awakeasaurusrex wrote:
Quote:
I'm going to point out here that that is because I've been dealing with them. There would be a steady spattering if I hadn't been actively tagging and merging them. It is a problem, and a frequent one.

Which means that it's imperative that the administration take moderation of this place seriously ASAP. If you're not able to moderate the MH forum because of IRL time constraints, more moderators are needed. If there isn't someone in the subforum community who has the time or skills necessary to do it, one of the other UF mods needs to come in and actually do it. Might not be the most exciting thing in the world, moderating a subforum concerning topics you aren't interested in, but it is part of the deal when you're moderating a large forum like this.


The reason, if I recall correctly, that only JKatkina was elevated to moderator is that there was only one active user among the names submitted for moderation.

That doesn't, in the slightest, mean that the administration doesn't take this forum seriously. Marble Hornets and Slender Man Mythos dwarf every single other active forum in size independently, and taken together account for almost a third of active discussion on this site.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:04 pm
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Dray
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 15 Jan 2010
Posts: 2578
Location: Cowtown, AB

Also, why are you driving the point so hard about script-wielding trolls coming in to fuck our shit up? :/ After all of the frustrated-sounding offense, it's coming off strongly as if you are planning on hopping ship and using one if things don't change to your satisfaction...?

I agree that SpaceBass' replies are really fucking lame, stemming from frustration, and not from a considered leader-hat point of view... but for goodness sakes, as things stand now, the trolls are not so impossible to ignore.

Moreover, I would put my soap-box up over people posting pointless things in discussion threads... or even trouting info over and over again. (I didn't take a step back from this community due to the trolls, but because there is far too much not-quite-meaningful chatter happening to keep up with. Blah!)

Fake entries are annoying as fuck (annoying as fake?) but I don't see how it is something that can rile up both the userbase and the Spacebass to the point of exchanging underhanded comments.

And belittling JKatkina for actually doing her damned job is not cool at all. She's dealing with what comes up, and I don't see people volunteering for modship. Your suggestion of hiring on more mods is a great one... but finding ones who are going to do their jobs within the framework of an admittedly frustrating admin is not exactly easy.

The fact that she's balancing between extremely frustrated users like you and apparently difficult to work with Admin like SpaceBass is kind of a miracle, [how does she work?!] so belittling her seems counterproductive to me.

I know that you've dropped hundreds of awesome and productive posts trending towards shit that actually was insightful... even if we haven't really seen eye to eye on certain things, it's been interesting to debate the crap out of things.

But I don't see why getting hackles up over this is such a big thing?

falseedit: Okay, well I can understand getting hackles up over people like SpaceBass and Cougar Draven. They're both not exactly trying to see eye to eye here... but I think that in this case, acknowledging that the situation's a stupid one and walking away for a little bit is probably better than bashing your head against the wall. I think that it's important to note that, yeah, things aren't perfect... but since things are going better now than they were before, we're heading in the right direction, right?

I'm not entirely clear with what happened to spark this, not being as active as I once was, but I get the feeling that you (Awakeasaurus Rex) got PM-bombed? That's pretty lame, but I think that if JKatkina keeps repeating for people to shape up, it'll slowly catch. And if she's saying that things are turning up, I would take her word for it. She spends a good chunk of her time on this forum with her mod-hat on, so (And apologies if this is asinine... but it's something I feel strongly about!) please motherfucking appreciate the time and effort she takes to help keep this place stay tidy, regardless of whether or not it's perfect yet. That is time that I could be spending with her having a real life. :I Because I generally think this place is cool and I can appreciate how much it needs a mod, I'm cool with that. I'm not cool with you snarking at her for doing what she can, where she can.

/knotted panties

Anyways, at this point I think it would be good to step back from debate, (I know that is not likely to happen, but it's worth putting it out there!) figuring out a different way to explain one's qualms, and starting over again in, say, five days time: putting things forward in a civil and concise manner. This will give everyone time to cool down.

For the mods and admin, I think that it's incredibly important to note that your current tones of voice might feel incredibly satisfying while doing it, but the impression that you're leaving on everyone lower down on the totem pole is extremely negative in that it's sparking strong feelings. YOU ARE IN A POSITION OF AUTHORITY. That, ideally, does not mean that you are in a e-peen measuring contest -- and I know you know that, but it bears repeating. You are here to act for the community as a whole. If you find that a user is acting in a way that is pissing you off, please do the following:

1) Walk around the block and/or go get something to eat/drink and/or just get away from the computer for a while.
2) If you're still pissed, write a reply, read it over, and then delete it. Repeat until you come to a point where the post doesn't read of attitude or come across as potentially insulting.
3) As you're going through with (2), really consider what the user is complaining about. Not only the words themselves, but what is motivating them. If you're not seeing a clear reason for their snarking, ask them. They'll be more than happy to oblige.
4) Keep in mind that you are asking us to be responsible. That's cool! That's great, it's a really good thing to do, asking people to take some responsibility for their online behaviour! But if you are asking us for that, you are also responsible to keep the peace, to listen when needed, and to consider alternatives.

Rules shouldn't be written in stone. If you're upset about what someone like Awakeasaurus Rex is saying because it undermines your TOS, please consider both sides of the issue. Unfiction is growing and changing... one could simply delete the MH subforum and be done with it. But... I think that we can work together to improve things.

And for mother of fucking pearl's sakes, please analyze your thinking: if you are considering anyone as 'those kind or 'X and his ilk', slap yourselves and do it now! We are a community and we should find ways around infighting and condescension as is being demonstrated here. There is no 'other'. Or... well, there is. But he's a tall faceless bloke in a suit, which is why we're all here to yak about in the first place, right?

eta: Cougar Draven, I think I spoke too soon and too harshly about you. That last post was way more even keeled. Apologies if I went off my rocker a little, there!

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:40 pm
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Cougar Draven
Entrenched


Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Posts: 1190
Location: Potentially everywhere.

Dray wrote:
eta: Cougar Draven, I think I spoke too soon and too harshly about you. That last post was way more even keeled. Apologies if I went off my rocker a little, there!


No issue taken. I admit I've gotten my hackles up a bit over this, but I'm trying to rein that in. Everyone involved in this discussion debate whatever is a quality poster, and I do regret firing off some over-the-top posts before letting myself cool down.

In the end, I can't help but to think that this is an overblown concern, and if it happens, it'll be dealt with.

And Dray, you should not be inactive. You're an awesome poster.
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Picture that. In your dreams.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:49 pm
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ZargggModerator
Unfictologist


Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 1660

I said I would back out of this discussion, but now I feel I should reply if only to apologize for making the posts that I did. This explosion didn't happen until after my comments, so I feel partly responsible for "opening the lid."

I personally don't think that the disagreement between the users and admins is enough reason to abandon this forum entirely. It's worked well in the past and it's only recently that this issue has started.

If the issue is not having enough moderators to keep the forum clean of troll threads, I'll be happy to help if someone wants to offer it to me. However, I don't necessarily think I've been here long enough (nor am I well-acquainted enough with the overall site policy) to have earned it, and I'm not the kind of person to flat out ask/demand for it. (That being said, I felt quite honored when my name was mentioned a couple times back during the whole nomination period when JKatkina was selected. Thank you, whoever you guys were.)

Regardless of people's opinions of SpaceBass, JKatkina, or Cougar Draven, the important thing to remember is that we all need to work together to keep this issue at a minimum.

And that also means not flying off the handle at each other when there are conflicts.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:22 pm
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Cougar Draven
Entrenched


Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Posts: 1190
Location: Potentially everywhere.

Zarggg wrote:
I said I would back out of this discussion, but now I feel I should reply if only to apologize for making the posts that I did. This explosion didn't happen until after my comments, so I feel partly responsible for "opening the lid."

I personally don't think that the disagreement between the users and admins is enough reason to abandon this forum entirely. It's worked well in the past and it's only recently that this issue has started.

If the issue is not having enough moderators to keep the forum clean of troll threads, I'll be happy to help if someone wants to offer it to me. However, I don't necessarily think I've been here long enough (nor am I well-acquainted enough with the overall site policy) to have earned it, and I'm not the kind of person to flat out ask/demand for it. (That being said, I felt quite honored when my name was mentioned a couple times back during the whole nomination period when JKatkina was selected. Thank you, whoever you guys were.)

Regardless of people's opinions of SpaceBass, JKatkina, or Cougar Draven, the important thing to remember is that we all need to work together to keep this issue at a minimum.

And that also means not flying off the handle at each other when there are conflicts.


I happen to agree with the idea that we may need an additional mod to lighten JKatkina's workload.

For what it's worth, I think Zarggg would do an excellent job, as would Dray.
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Writing: ???
Picture that. In your dreams.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:40 pm
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Dray
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 15 Jan 2010
Posts: 2578
Location: Cowtown, AB

I don't think I would make a good choice, quite frankly: I tend to flake out of responsibility after a few weeks of burning myself out. That said, I am trying to return some attention to this forum. I wouldn't mind fielding questions for folks if they need them answered, or doing other sub-modly duties that don't require as much commitment.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:08 pm
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Deimos
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Joined: 22 Mar 2010
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Cougar Draven wrote:


For what it's worth, I think Zarggg would do an excellent job, as would Dray.


There are a few choices I'd say. Rando would be one, lifegospel (though he doesn't seem active anymore). Hell I'd be willing to step up if need be, I've dropped off a bit lately but I'm ready to get stuck in again (hopefully not sounding vain in self nomination)
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:06 am
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punxtr
Die Hard Try Hard


Joined: 17 Jul 2010
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I didn't think we needed another mod, personally. This forum is not as bad as it seems.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:15 pm
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NewInTown2
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Joined: 03 Jun 2011
Posts: 375

punxtr wrote:
I didn't think we needed another mod, personally. This forum is not as bad as it seems.


2

+ it wouldn't solve the problem people are having with the forum.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:26 pm
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Cougar Draven
Entrenched


Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Posts: 1190
Location: Potentially everywhere.

NewInTown2 wrote:
punxtr wrote:
I didn't think we needed another mod, personally. This forum is not as bad as it seems.


2

+ it wouldn't solve the problem people are having with the forum.


No, it won't, but with another person keeping troll threads from being a thing, it's less of a problem.
_________________
Currently playing: MH, EMH, The Master Theorem
Moderating: Slender Man Mythos, The Master Theorem
Writing: ???
Picture that. In your dreams.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:36 pm
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Cactus Wren
Boot


Joined: 16 Mar 2011
Posts: 60

Can "Bananasandmyslenderman" and his other head "Dumblydore" be added to the list in the top post?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:07 pm
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baseballfuries08
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Location: I'm lost, let's ask that bald, tall, faceless guy in a business suit.

punxtr wrote:
I didn't think we needed another mod, personally. This forum is not as bad as it seems.


Yes, I'm with you on this. I don't even understand why this thing exploded out of nowere... I think some people are just being alarmists...
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:01 am
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Gold Knight
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Joined: 01 Oct 2011
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Just out of curiosity, what happened to merging troll threads with the Troll Compendium? Those fake TTA threads are cluttering up the first page.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:03 am
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ZargggModerator
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Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 1660

Probably a good idea. I keep forgetting it's there.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:24 am
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Cactus Wren
Boot


Joined: 16 Mar 2011
Posts: 60

I wonder if it would be appropriate to do something about vsargfsers?

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:02 pm
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