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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[OT] Info for Newcomers: DO NOT RESPOND TO FAKE ENTRIES
Moderators: Giskard, JKatkina, Zarggg
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Nickjackal
Decorated


Joined: 21 Mar 2011
Posts: 156
Location: All around the mulberry bush, TN

 [OT] Info for Newcomers: DO NOT RESPOND TO FAKE ENTRIES
A guide on how to banish this scourge of the forums.

So there seems to be a rather bad cycle taking place at least once a week now:

A troll, usually someone who only has one or two posts prior, makes a topic labeled " Entry (whatever we're up to) " or a fake ToTheArk thread.

The link therein usually leads to a " GIMME TWENNY DOLLAZ OH MY GOD I'M SO FURKING HEELARIOUS HUR HUR DUR DUR" vid, or just something stupid that somebody cobbled together really quickly. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Somebody, usually a good-intentioned newcomer, enters the thread and makes a post wagging a finger at the troll poster.

However, this is the worst thing you could do in this situation for two reasons, the second being more important.

1. It's a troll. Whoever did it is likely on the other end of the internet jerking off to the fact that someone fell for a gag that's been done and done again because he believes this makes him oober-speshul.
One of the most important rules of the internet: Don't feed the trolls.

2. (Again, the most important reason.) If left by itself, with NO responses, NONE, then the topic can be totally deleted. Poof. Gone. It would probably help speed up the process if you informed a mod like JKatkina, certainly, so they could enter the thread and blow up this silly attempt to stroke a sad man's (or woman's) ego and ban the user.

And that's probably the most damaging thing you could do to whoever posts the troll entries. Not respond. Because that's what they expect. Maybe it's just because they want attention. Maybe it's because they know that some wayward stranger is going to try to scold them, keeping their deceitful post up for that much longer. ( At least until a mod can label it a TROLL thread, but really, it's much more satisfying for it to just go away completely, quickly, instead of being pushed to the back slowly. )

I hope that this has helped some people out. Wether it's necessary info for people, I dunno, that's up to some of the other board vets. I hope that this warrants its own topic. Way I see it, if at least one person gets the right idea out of this then my work's done.

Thanks for reading.

EDIT:

I am now including a list of screen names of users who create troll entries. If you see a topic started by someone on this list, then do not enter it. Simply inform Jkatkina of its existence, and they will see to its removal.

TwoTheLarp ( Previously ToTheLarp. For future reference, ignore any topic by any user with a variation on this screenname, if the topic they post in is one of their first ten posts, just to be safe. )

ModEdit (Zarggg): Gave thread a new title within length restrictions.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:42 am
Last edited by Nickjackal on Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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ServoMascherato
Decorated


Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 188
Location: New York

Everything above is completely wonderful. And I agree with it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:10 am
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freyathedark
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Joined: 04 May 2011
Posts: 353
Location: Iowa, USA

I agree! I think this thread needed to be made, so thanks for doing it!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:28 am
Last edited by freyathedark on Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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BranRainey
Unfettered


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 371

I always seem to stumble into these threads when they have no posts, but without a report function it's hard to alert someone who has moderator privileges. Disappointingly, the thread usually has a few posts by the time I go back to the thread index.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:35 am
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JKatkinaModerator
Entrenched


Joined: 16 Jan 2010
Posts: 825
Location: Calgary, AB

BranRainey wrote:
I always seem to stumble into these threads when they have no posts, but without a report function it's hard to alert someone who has moderator privileges. Disappointingly, the thread usually has a few posts by the time I go back to the thread index.


In lieu of a 'report' button, tossing me a PM with a link to the thread (or not, usually I can find them on my own once let know that it exists) generally gets a response quite quickly.

I am in the middle of a rather intensive two-week internship right now, so I'm not on top of my game in terms of keeping an eye on the forum, so this kind of help would be deeply appreciated and helpful. Also: awesome thread! I'm'a sticky this for the time being.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:19 pm
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awakeasaurusrex
Entrenched


Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 1099

Can we get some confirmation from the mods that they'll ban people who post fake entries?

I ask because ToTheLarp ended up doing that twice (most recently posting a fake Entry 42) and to be frank I think he should have been blatted the first time he did it.

Also, if it's not possible to delete threads that have at least one reply in them (which I think is bizarre and probably a misconception unless the admins have set up the permissions in a strange way), I'm sure from experience moderating other phpBB boards that it's possible to create a "dustbin" subforum, visible only to moderators, to which junk threads can be moved to and forgotten out of the sight of ordinary users.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:36 pm
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SpaceBass
The BADministrator


Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 2701
Location: pellucidar

Hi. We only ban people for violating the ToS or spamming.

The "no-delete" approach is not a software issue, it is a policy based on the discussion philosophy of this community.

It is partly intended to preserve context for historical purposes, partly because we don't have access behind-the-scenes to these campaigns so we never really know what is and isn't important, and partly to allow for example signpost threads that can help the community remember to self-moderate. Just "disappearing" problem posts doesn't really educate anyone, since they can no longer see what not to do.

ETA: It also ends up placing an unfair onus on the moderators to "police" the discussions, an idea we strongly dislike. Once users begin to rely on mods/admins to "fix" everything for them, the users no longer put any effort into shaping the culture and discussions themselves.

awakeasaurusrex wrote:
Can we get some confirmation from the mods that they'll ban people who post fake entries?

I ask because ToTheLarp ended up doing that twice (most recently posting a fake Entry 42) and to be frank I think he should have been blatted the first time he did it.

Also, if it's not possible to delete threads that have at least one reply in them (which I think is bizarre and probably a misconception unless the admins have set up the permissions in a strange way), I'm sure from experience moderating other phpBB boards that it's possible to create a "dustbin" subforum, visible only to moderators, to which junk threads can be moved to and forgotten out of the sight of ordinary users.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:21 pm
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Nickjackal
Decorated


Joined: 21 Mar 2011
Posts: 156
Location: All around the mulberry bush, TN

Holy wow. A sticky and I haven't even hit a hundred posts yet. I feel happy. ( I would say 'honored' but that's a bit extreme.)

I can see SpaceBass's point of view. I also don't really think that it would stop even if we did start giving out harsher penalties. It's easy for someone to make a second account and do it all over again using a temporary email each time.

The best solution, in my opinion, is to just wait until it gets deleted. Don't reply, don't acknowledge it, just tell JKat or another mod and leave it be if you see that it has zero replies and it's been up for a while.

If it's legit, there'll be replies within moments, probably, because most of us have subbed to Marble Hornets and TTA on YouTube. We get emails or other notifications when they're uploaded, and that makes it alot easier to tell when there's a troll topic or not.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:23 am
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ToTheLarp
Account Disabled

Joined: 23 May 2011
Posts: 5

That ToTheLarp guy is a real bastard, isn't he?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:10 am
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awakeasaurusrex
Entrenched


Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 1099

SpaceBass wrote:
Hi. We only ban people for violating the ToS or spamming.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I strongly think that posting links masquerading as actual content when they're not at the very least qualifies as a type of spamming, and arguably is the opposite of "respectful, appropriate [behaviour] that encourage[s] inclusion and cooperation" for the purposes of the ToS. It's deceptive, unproductive, and indicative of an unwillingness to engage with other users in a constructive manner.

Look at ToTheLarp's posts, they've posted solely to post fake links and to mock this thread. They're not engaging with the board in good faith, they spam fake links, why aren't they gone?

We are not dealing with an established and respected member throwing out a rickroll for a gag in a context where it's obviously just a throwaway gag, we're talking about someone making junk threads for the lulz. That's not respectful of other users' and the moderators' time, it's not appropriate for the forum, and it shows no intent of co-operating with other users.

It's all very well saying that you'll only ban people if they break the ToS or spam. But if you don't even take action when people do that, it's effectively meaningless. I would say that weak moderation is actually worse than no moderation at all; it tempts trolls to test the mods' limits, and when the mods fail to respond the trolls go further and further and take more liberties.

If you're not going to ban accounts which have been created solely for the purposes of trolling I can't say how you can claim to be even attempting to moderate this place.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:09 am
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Cactus Wren
Boot


Joined: 16 Mar 2011
Posts: 60

When I saw ToTheLarp's posting I came close to snarking it ("Not funny, not clever, not original"), but decided against it: this thread has made clear why it's a good thing I didn't. Now I will not be tempted in future. Thank you.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:23 pm
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Nickjackal
Decorated


Joined: 21 Mar 2011
Posts: 156
Location: All around the mulberry bush, TN

Cactus Wren wrote:
When I saw ToTheLarp's posting I came close to snarking it ("Not funny, not clever, not original"), but decided against it: this thread has made clear why it's a good thing I didn't. Now I will not be tempted in future. Thank you.


You're welcome. And thank you for using common sense.
Just remember, ToTheLarp wasn't the first to do this. Other people have regularly done and probably will continue to do this for as long as Marble Hornets goes on. Probably even afterward. ( "Hey guys J posted a new vid!!!1!" *link to the same old song and dance* )

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:54 am
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awakeasaurusrex
Entrenched


Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 1099

Nickjackal wrote:
Cactus Wren wrote:
When I saw ToTheLarp's posting I came close to snarking it ("Not funny, not clever, not original"), but decided against it: this thread has made clear why it's a good thing I didn't. Now I will not be tempted in future. Thank you.


You're welcome. And thank you for using common sense.
Just remember, ToTheLarp wasn't the first to do this. Other people have regularly done and probably will continue to do this for as long as Marble Hornets goes on. Probably even afterward. ( "Hey guys J posted a new vid!!!1!" *link to the same old song and dance* )

Which is yet another good reason to take a harsh line on it. It's a transparent trolling attempt which a) tends to work - people get pissed off and respond no matter how many stickies go up telling them not to, and b) shows a lack of willingness to engage constructively which really shouldn't be indulged for even a second.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:22 am
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The Kempest
Unfettered


Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 433
Location: Northern California

I was pretty proud when JKat deleted that last fake TTA post. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:35 pm
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JKatkinaModerator
Entrenched


Joined: 16 Jan 2010
Posts: 825
Location: Calgary, AB

So, I've put together a Fake Entry Compendium, a locked thread I can quickly merge fake entries, ones with replies that are therefore undeletable, into. I've merged in a bunch of existing ones with discussions that were less than a page long. There are still some floating out there -- I left the ones that had grown to a couple of pages' off-topic discussion.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:06 pm
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