unforum

[Rogi Ocnorb]

 Don't Pee in the Pool

[konamouse]

In a movie, no one walks in front of the camera and tells the actors that their lives are not real, that they are just in a movie (except, maybe, uhm, "Purple Rose of Cairo").

In an ARG, the characters firmly believe TINAG ("this is not a game"). In order to preserve this concent, any players interacting with these characters must also maintain that concept.

Players also need a safe haven of discussion where we can discuss the "game" without the characters seeing these dialogues.

In that respect, PMs can watch and listen to opinion - the advantage is that if something is going wrong, if the players are driving down the wrong road, a good PM can gently nudge back to the correct path - using game narrative or other IG means. Remember, since characters cannot know the existence of uF, they cannot appear to react to anything posted in here. The only way would be if a player communicated information directly to a character. Remembering that in contacting a character, the player also needs to maintain the illusion of TINAG.

But if characters "knew" about uF, that completely breaks the illusion of TINAG. Period.

If a PM needs an open forum for characters & players to interact within the game's universe, then one should be created within (ala "WiBS" and "MHC") with players respecting TINAG. uF remains the location safe for META discussion about the games as GAMES.

[rose]

I think this is a great idea Rogi. I don't think it is just grassroot PMs who have problems with this. I recall Brian Clark mentioning that he has to explain to agencies why they can't just post on these forums or pretend to be characters here - as clear as it is to us, it just isn't intuitive to people who haven't played.

Also, it is easy to just say, "it is against the rules" but if people don't understand the reason behind the rules, then they may not understand the need to comply.

I think the simplest explanation is that players need a place to discuss the game that they know will be completely free of PM intervention. The reason is that players need to trust each other. While some of us have met in real life, basically the trust we have is that the person posting under a screen name or chatting in irc, is playing the game along with us, not a shill leading us down a predetermined path.


That isn't that short or clear, I think others can do better.

[Rogi Ocnorb]

So, now we're rolling.
kona's summary is probably as complete and succinct as I've seen. But, at ~250 words, it's still something an antsy PM or player may not throttle back for and absorb. I hadn't thought about having to explain the TINAG acronym as well.

And rose brings yet another scenario to the mix with PMs having to explain the concept to clients. How much better to give them a definitive summary so they can buy into the concept from the start and not feel like there is/was an unmined resource out there?

I'm sure we can condense these points further and get to something that quickly conveys the message to those who would do as they please because they know there is no magical chemical in the water that makes it turn red.

[Phaedra]

Bringing UF, at which we discuss the game as a game, overtly into the game forces the game and its characters to either become stupid (i.e. ignore something obvious and right in front of their faces) or cease to exist (acknowledge that they are fictional). At which point everyone stops clapping and Tinkerbell dies.

[SpaceBass]

A healthy boundary between "self" and "other" is vital to the sanity and efficacy of the collective.

[Mountain Girl]

[Phaedra]

Heh, thanks. Spacely's submission, I think, actually sums it up better but for some reason it sounds to me vaguely...communist.

[FLmutant]

[Rogi Ocnorb]

Space's version is short enough that, with a little practice, I could actually rattle it off in casual conversation. You went straight for the 200 proof, dude

I'm glag everyone is keeping mindful of the fact that this thing, whatever it is, should be a "Oh, that makes perfect sense." moment for the person hearing it for the first time.

Keep 'em coming. If nothing else' I'll have all the good examples in one bookmarked place to point the noobs.

[Phaedra]

[FLmutant]

Phaedra, totally agree ... I meant my example as more illustrative about an OOG angle (rather than a real suggestion of what that OOG angle should be) because the shorter paragraph before it wasn't making sense when I read it (and I wrote it *gasp*)

[Giskard]

[Phaedra]

<steps on Giskard's toes>

[Giskard]

Ouch!