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HappyFunNorm
Boot

Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 54
Location: Roswell, GA

 DrumMajor wrote: The Fibinocci sequence technically starts with an infinite amount of zeros. In an obscure mathematical effect an infinite aomunt of zeros will add to one, much like an infinite amount of ones multiply to e. This is rarely shown however, and when it is represented it is done with only two of the many 0s.

That can't possibly be right. The next number in the sequence is merely the sum of the previous 2 numbers, not every preceeding number. If your idea was right the sequence would look like
0-0...0-1-2(since an infinite number of 0s is 1 and so is 1)-4-8-16...
and does not resemble fibonacci at all. It does appear to be a different progression, though.

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:03 pm
DrumMajor
Boot

Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 54

The infinite sums of zeros works like this: You take N terms of the fraction (1/N) and add them together, this will always come to (N/N) which is 1. You can extend this infinitely till you get [1/(infinity)] which is 0, yet an infinite amount of these these still exhibit (N/N) behavior.
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:52 am
HappyFunNorm
Boot

Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 54
Location: Roswell, GA

 DrumMajor wrote: The infinite sums of zeros works like this: You take N terms of the fraction (1/N) and add them together, this will always come to (N/N) which is 1. You can extend this infinitely till you get [1/(infinity)] which is 0, yet an infinite amount of these these still exhibit (N/N) behavior.

But with Fibbonacci you're never adding an infinite number of anything together, only 2 things.

N x =N x-1 +N x-2

(Why am I arguing about math... I must be bored)

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:18 am
dontpanic42
Veteran

Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 147
Location: naples, florida

 HappyFunNorm wrote: (Why am I arguing about math... I must be bored)

finally
something i understand in this convorsation.

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:37 pm
yanka
Fickle

Joined: 06 Oct 2003
Posts: 1214
Location: undesirable

 DrumMajor wrote: The infinite sums of zeros works like this: You take N terms of the fraction (1/N) and add them together, this will always come to (N/N) which is 1. You can extend this infinitely till you get [1/(infinity)] which is 0, yet an infinite amount of these these still exhibit (N/N) behavior.

That still seems flawed... because technically, though the fraction 1/N -> 0 as N -> infinity, as long as you're not at infinity, you're adding up an almost infinite number of almost infinitely small terms, and that sum -> 1. So, you don't really have a bunch of 0s adding up to 1 - you have a huge number of tiny terms wanting to add up to 1.

Further, if you start out with a 2/N fraction, then it'll be exhibiting a 2N/N behavior, so according to the initial logic, an infinite amount of 0s also adds up to 2? And to 3, and to just about any other number out there?
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:49 pm
aliendial
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Joined: 29 Sep 2002
Posts: 3438
Location: Far Far Away. Nowhere Near You. Really.

I feel the need for an exploding head emoticon.
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:29 pm
e_nygma
Decorated

Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Maryland, US

 yanka wrote: Further, if you start out with a 2/N fraction, then it'll be exhibiting a 2N/N behavior, so according to the initial logic, an infinite amount of 0s also adds up to 2? And to 3, and to just about any other number out there?

This, boys and girls, is sort of why dividing by zero is a bad thing.

Most computers would treat 1/0 as "undefined" or "NaN" (Not a Number) because if we follow this logic it could be anything. Since computers can only do true or false, it gets the old dodge and say we can't deal with that.

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:57 am
CreativeEmbassy
Veteran

Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 145
Location: State College, Pa, USA

Soooo, yeah. How bout them ocular effects? HA HA!

Nah, I don't get the 0 + 0 = 1 thing either. Because it's not (1/0*sideways eight), it's 0+0, an infinite amount of times. Which is different. And the fibonacci sequence always starts at either 0,1,1,2,3,5 or 1,1,2,3,5, it can't work any other way.
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Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:30 am
ALISDAIRPARK
Unfictologist

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 1646
Location: Everywhere else

 yanka wrote: Further, if you start out with a 2/N fraction, then it'll be exhibiting a 2N/N behavior, so according to the initial logic, an infinite amount of 0s also adds up to 2? And to 3, and to just about any other number out there?

The "logic" our minds tell us make us think this isn't the case. The failing point here is more metaphysical than mathmatical....infinity is infinite. It isn't 1 with loads of zeros after it, well actually it is and it isn't, but my point is our little human heads really struggle with the actual visualisation of infinity, in it's true infinite sense. So actually 1/infinity does equal 0. Think of 1/everything...

Then again we could use the allegory of the hare that travels half the distance to the end of the race every minute, but on that basis will never get there... of course clearly rubbish

EDIT: and for the 0+0=1 the easiest way to understand this is 0.4 + 0.4 = 0.8 now think of that with no decimal places.

Now lets all try and visualise a four dimensional cube...
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Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:57 pm
Wiser
Decorated

Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 251
Location: 127.0.0.1

/me pops

*twitch* *twitch*

edit: hehehe. In looking for a head explody emoticon, I found what is probably my new favorite emoticon.
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Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:04 pm
HappyFunNorm
Boot

Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 54
Location: Roswell, GA

0+0 can never = 1

So anyway

What that means is that leading 0 is out of place. Are there any ideas about it, other than 012358 was already taken? Could a leading 0 have some other meaning?

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:13 pm
yanka
Fickle

Joined: 06 Oct 2003
Posts: 1214
Location: undesirable

 ALISDAIRPARK wrote: The "logic" our minds tell us make us think this isn't the case. The failing point here is more metaphysical than mathmatical....infinity is infinite. It isn't 1 with loads of zeros after it, well actually it is and it isn't, but my point is our little human heads really struggle with the actual visualisation of infinity, in it's true infinite sense. So actually 1/infinity does equal 0. Think of 1/everything...

Metaphysically, I think people should be free to believe whatever they want, and screw the philosophers Mathematically and physically infinity is a concept quite beyond my comprehension, as it is, for example, an accepted convention that there are smaller and greater infinities, so... Given my level of comprehension of math - if a/b=c, and d/b=c, then a has to equal d. If 1/infinity is 0, and 2/inifinity is 0, then 1 has to equal 2, and, er... yeah... Hello, Godel.

 Quote: Then again we could use the allegory of the hare that travels half the distance to the end of the race every minute, but on that basis will never get there... of course clearly rubbish

Poo, no sorbet for Xeno.

 Quote: EDIT: and for the 0+0=1 the easiest way to understand this is 0.4 + 0.4 = 0.8 now think of that with no decimal places.
Sorry, that is actually quite lost on me - could you extrapolate?
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Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:58 pm
rowan
Unfictologist

Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 1966

This is why countdowns are bad. They either spur people to visit in mass quantities, bringing the site (and any other sites talking about it) down.

Or they make people discuss weird principles of math. This countdown can't end soon enuf.
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Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:24 am
ALISDAIRPARK
Unfictologist

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 1646
Location: Everywhere else

 HappyFunNorm wrote: 0+0 can never = 1
and also for Yanka: If you round 0.4 to the nearest integer you get 0, likewise if you round 0.8 you would get 1. So 0.4 + 0.4= 0.8, but those numbers rounded give 0 + 0 = 1.

Also for Yanka, yes there are an infinite number of infinities, for example infiniti+1, infiniti*2, etc. However although all these infinities are smaller, or greater, they are in fact the same as well, as they are all infinite. Fun eh?
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Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:30 am
DrumMajor
Boot

Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 54

Not also that by L'Hospitals Rule dividing infinity by itself can give you a range of answers depending on how the limit of the variables in the numerator and denomenator react after taking thier derivatives.
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Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:53 am
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