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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
From me to you
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Dasro_Kast
Unfettered


Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 304
Location: Raleigh, NC

water10 wrote:
From a ex-lurker perspective, as I said before, we got more involved with the community around the end of the game, cases like me, Eclipse and Dasro, for example. And we were so well received by the community that a lot of us feel the need to say something! Just read the "As a lurker" topic.


I can back that up. For me, it's partly an appreciation for just how awesome the people I have spoken to here were to me when I finally had the time/courage to participate as things were wrapping up. Not a single person ever acted like I didn't belong, or weren't welcome, and to me, that was special. I think another part, for me, is trying to make up for what I feel like I missed out on, and that's the discussions, the chatting, most of the puzzle solving, the events, and things like that. I also think alot of the recent camaraderie has stemmed from our outings on XBOX live, and how much alot of us have connected, and laughed, and had such a rewarding time with a product (XBOX live), that for me, up to this point only meant throngs of morons just waiting to cheat, or complain, or just be despicable human beings. That's where I kindof agree with the "reaffirming my faith in humanity" statements, in as much as reminding me that there are a ton of great human beings out there, waiting to be found.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:01 am
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Eclipse
Decorated


Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 166
Location: Dark Side of the Moon

Archon, I think that you are looking for the answers to your questions in the wrong place. I'm not saying they aren't valid..you had a different experience than I did. I didn't post this because of my love for the game, though it was a great game/story, I posted because of the level of heart that people showed between the game.

People created friendships with one another, people shared parts of their lives with almost complete strangers(looked for a post by Phaedra but she removed it), people proved that there is a difference between selfish and selfless(here is one to show this), and it is for that I am thankful.

You will find your answers Archon, maybe not here, but someday you will see.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:27 am
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Phaedra
Lurker v2.0


Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 4033
Location: Here, obviously

archon wrote:
Maybe I'm just some cold hearted son of a bitch


Apparently so, Razz but we're so full of affection to outpour that we love you anyway.

No, in all seriousness, it is interesting, isn't it?

Quote:
I really don't get this whole outpouring of affection that goes between everyone here.


Well, I'm not sure I completely understand it, and I as always can only speak for myself, but I don't think it was "just a game" for most people.

To wit: In the course of a game that mainly involved answering payphones, I got to discuss theology with two evangelical Christians (and some others). Contrary to my usual experiences in such a situation, I was not told I was going to hell, they listened to me, and they talked with me rather than ay me. Maybe you can be engaged in such a passionate, personal dialogue and not feel any attachment to your conversation partners. I can't.

Then there was the thread of good and evil, and so on.

There was the Help Weephun effort. There were the people who emailed me before I went to take the LSAT to wish me good luck and the people who emailed me afterward to find out how it went.

Ah, you might say, that's all very nice, but what does it have to do with the game?

The thing is, it wasn't just a game. It prompted us to do these things. Not directly, but the themes were there to be noticed and dissected, and the community-building, we now know, was an intentional and planned part of the game. We experienced being part of a collective intelligence, and that's different from just sharing interests. I share interests with a lot of people -- I've been to book discussion groups where we had weighty discussions about the themes in books we've read, but that's not the same as participating in a search for, or perhaps creation of greater, shared meaning.

And I think you're misreading the "reaffirming faith in humanity" quote.

It's not a matter of being jaded. It's a matter of how people responded. With the Beast, the PMs expected their audience to fight back, to attempt to show the game "who was boss," to attempt to prove that despite the over-the-top "This Is Not a Game" rhetoric, it was in fact a game. Instead, the players actively participated in maintaining the illusion of reality, in some cases acting on their own to work around flaws before the PMs could react. Sometimes, when a player would find a "rupture" in the game's illusion, they wouldn't say anything to the other players, protecting the ability of others to "believe" (and I put this in quotes because it's not a question of real belief, but of acting as if one believes in order to sustain the world of the game) in the reality of the game.

The point is, this is completely contrary to our normal societal ethic of individual self-promotion. It demonstrates a remarkable lack of egotism. Even in a game where the prize isn't clear, one would expect most people to attempt to "win." You'd expect a lot less collectivism and a lot more competition.

But we all, very (and surprisingly) naturally, formed a community and worked collectively. This is contrary to the me-first attitude promoted by so many elements of our society.

So I think what Sean meant when he said that the Beast and ILB had "reaffirmed his faith in humanity" was that it had proven that people are willing, and even eager, to put aside egotism and even, to an extent, individualism, to engage in a collective search for (or creation of) greater meaning.

For me, at least, this was a relief, and yes, something of a reaffirmation. I work best in a collective, communal environment. I'm competitive in some settings, but I get sick of competition pretty fast, unless it's as a team. I'm totally willing to admit that individualism and the whole Protestant Ethic and Spirit of Capitalism made America great, but sometimes I think it's gone a bit too far in that we're all a little too individualistic, a little too me-centered. It was reassuring for me to see that people are still willing to work together toward a goal that might not involve a tangible reward or even individual recognition.

So, I would say that it wasn't just the teamwork, as such. It was the whole environment, and the fact that there are genuinely creative, wonderful people here. I check the 8-page haiku thread, or my email, and practically every day someone says something that makes me laugh involuntarily (which is a fairly rare and precious thing to me) or ponder in a way that makes me feel more creative and more expressive.

I love these people, and not just because they love bees.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:39 am
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weephun
Entrenched


Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 908
Location: Fuquay Varina, NC

Phaedra wrote:
The point is, this is completely contrary to our normal societal ethic of individual self-promotion. It demonstrates a remarkable lack of egotism. Even in a game where the prize isn't clear, one would expect most people to attempt to "win." You'd expect a lot less collectivism and a lot more competition.

But we all, very (and surprisingly) naturally, formed a community and worked collectively. This is contrary to the me-first attitude promoted by so many elements of our society.

So I think what Sean meant when he said that the Beast and ILB had "reaffirmed his faith in humanity" was that it had proven that people are willing, and even eager, to put aside egotism and even, to an extent, individualism, to engage in a collective search for (or creation of) greater meaning.

...

So, I would say that it wasn't just the teamwork, as such. It was the whole environment, and the fact that there are genuinely creative, wonderful people here. I check the 8-page haiku thread, or my email, and practically every day someone says something that makes me laugh involuntarily (which is a fairly rare and precious thing to me) or ponder in a way that makes me feel more creative and more expressive.

I love these people, and not just because they love bees.


Yep, that's what it was. I can't tell you how many people (and how many times my wife specifically) asked "OK, so what are you going to win by playing this game?" ... and there was no answer. There was no "winning". Most people I talked to just couldn't understand why I would expend so much time and energy without knowing what I would gain or win by doing so.

Sure it was cool for a few of us to see our usernames on the site and hear clips of us doing something, but what kept bringing me back to this community (even during the hate-mail and death-threat phase) was how amazing the people here were. As mentioned by Phaedra, discussions were happening here that don't go well in other places (I've been a part of many of them going badly), the fact that we were able to work as a team while still having Melissa vs. SP factions within that team and get over ourselves enough to continue sharing fully with one another even after those factions had been created, and just the general collective genious here all kept me part of this community. The fact that most of my favorite people have continued to stick around talking about everything from their kid's halloween costumes to Halo2 strageties is also really nice.

It is really rare in life to find a group of people like this. Even more rare to find them on the internet (anonymity does terrible things to people).
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:06 pm
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hmrpita
Unfettered


Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 629
Location: East of the Ocean, West of the Bay, Close to many faults

hmrpita from Sep. 29 wrote:
I am new to this kind of game and I never expected to get this involved. I really like the communal and cooperative aspects of it, with smart people working together to find solutions and working towards a common goal. I am so impressed by all of the talented people out there.

Phaedra wrote:
For me, at least, this was a relief, and yes, something of a reaffirmation. I work best in a collective, communal environment. I'm competitive in some settings, but I get sick of competition pretty fast, unless it's as a team. I'm totally willing to admit that individualism and the whole Protestant Ethic and Spirit of Capitalism made America great, but sometimes I think it's gone a bit too far in that we're all a little too individualistic, a little too me-centered. It was reassuring for me to see that people are still willing to work together toward a goal that might not involve a tangible reward or even individual recognition.

Phaedra was much more eloquent today than I was back in September. I only quote mine as well to emphasize that the communal and cooperative aspect of this game was one of the main reasons I stuck around.

It is nice to know that in a society where competition is celebrated and winning is everything, a group of people from all over the world got together to find solutions together, to think, to laugh, to entertain, and to be creative, with the only reward being that it was fun. The bonuses were the thoughtful discussions, the passionate opinions, and the friendships that sprung out of it.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:33 pm
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johnny5
Entrenched

Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 995
Location: Elysian Fields

INCyr wrote:
archon wrote:
I don't even know what the hell I'm getting at here (neither do any of you then, probably Shocked ), but I guess what I'm trying to ask is what is it that makes this community what it is? Why is it now so special that the "lurkers" and many others feel the need to declare their love for the game when at one time the in-thing was to bash it? Is it just that we're a special kind of crazy, or what?


Well, I can't speak for the lurkers, because they had a profoundly different experience than I did. However, I do know that I feel like I've been a part of something so incredibly special, and that I shared this experience with everyone here. And more than that, it's something that only those who experienced it can understand... sure, we can explain red balloons to other people, but how many of them will really understand?


I think that's the crux of it. We shared a common emotionally, physically, and mentally stimulating experience and have become closer because of it. Some more than others, but that's to be expected in any community. It's like we all went on "outward bound" together or something.

INCyr wrote:
archon wrote:
My guess is that it's just the type of patient, more experienced game player that this sort of activity draws is what makes this community what it is.


I think that has something to do with it, yes. It seems to me that the ARG community is very mature, and doesn't tolerate immaturity very well. So it manages to attract those who have some minimum level of maturity, which usually goes along with being patient and older. Obviously not everyone here is older, but it seems like compared to the Halo fanboys we had sometimes, the average ARGer was a good couple of years older than the average Halo fan.


More mature in many respects. Chat speak was not tolerated, even in chat. It was kind of odd to be having a discussion with someone in chat or on forums and discover they are young enough to be my offspring.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:04 pm
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