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The State of ARGFest Address
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Pixiestix
Resident Angry Midget


Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 2456
Location: Tomorrow's Talk Studios

The State of ARGFest Address
We need your help!

Now that ARGFest-o-Con 2014 in Portland, Oregon is over, we would like to open the curtains. ARGFest is in trouble, and we need your help.

Please, whether you have gone to an ARGFest or not, read this letter on the ARGFest website, fill out the survey linked in the letter, then come BACK here and share your thoughts.

Together, we can all save the Fest!!!

Thank you,
The ARGFest 2014 Directing Committee
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:17 pm
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Pixiestix
Resident Angry Midget


Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 2456
Location: Tomorrow's Talk Studios

Copied with permission from Facebook:
addlepated wrote:
I have a couple of thoughts. First, expenses in 2013-2014 are nearly double the previous two years. Is that correct? Is it worth the cost to keep it in Portland, or at that venue, anyway, if the costs are so high? Second, I think a lot of folks would like to see speaker and keynote announcements a good bit earlier. I know a lot of times those aren't nailed down until further on, but knowing the keynoter would really help, I think. I know y'all are putting a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into this and I think the decision for transparency is great.

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Remember kiddles, bad PMs get the wrath of the Vulva Puppets
PROUDLY owned by Gizmo, the wonder ARG pug!


PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:19 pm
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xnbomb
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Joined: 13 Oct 2003
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Venues

First of all, thanks for making the current situation clear, and providing the key facts and figures. I participated in the planning and delivery of a few ARGFests before 2011, and I can write that the dollars and cents situation in the more distant past was similar (although as you go further back in time it was easier to get sponsorship, I think ... money now is very hard to find).

Some things have not changed at all. When it comes down to it, attendees have been paying for about half of the cost of ARGFest (if you add up the Ticket Sales Revenue and the Bottom Line for 2011 - 2014, you'll find that the former is about 53% of the latter over the four-year period). A couple of other ways to write that are: 1) ARGFest has been incredible value for the money! For an experience that costs us 2x to deliver, we have historically charged x. OR 2) Realistically, instead of asking for $200 - $250 for a full, all-access pass, we needed to be asking for $400 - $500.

Now, of course, no one on a Directing Committee wants to do that. And it's pretty obvious that revenue gains from those who would attend at a higher price would be offset by losing some attendees because of that higher price. So that's not really a solution that is going to work. If you think about it (which many of us who have been on DCs have ... a lot), planning an event like this is a very tricky balancing act. We want to keep the price low, and we want the venue to be one that allows us to attract a broad spectrum of attendees, from enthusiastic community members to transmedia professionals (and all possible combinations and other categorizations of interested parties that you would care to list).

Superficially, the magic bullet would seem to be higher attendance, although this is the most elusive (and perhaps risky) way to solve this problem. We can always design for, rent for, and hope for 100 or more paying attendees. But our recent experience tells us that we cannot responsibly plan an ARGFest without realistically expecting around 60 paying attendees, and trying to structure costs so we would break even at that level. Guessing how many attendees we will get, and 'right-sizing' the room we rent, and some of the other attendance-dependent fixed costs, is one of the other serious challenges. It's great to be optimistic and contract for greater capacity up front (and unfortunately, the contractual approach in the conference industry seems to generally require you to make guesses and obligate yourself contractually in advance), but this becomes an expensive error if you build it and they don't come.

One thing that the 2011 - 2014 figures do show us is that university venues have been good to ARGFest (and for its bottom line). 2011 and 2012 (at Indiana University at Bloomington and at Ryerson University in Toronto, respectively) were seemingly more cost effective, and ended up a lot less in the red. It looks like if you consider A/V and food together, the University-type venue seems to do a lot less profiteering than the private/hotel setups. The pricing difference suggests that hotels view providing these services as a way to make profits, and based on our experience, clearly they do so.

(It looks like the Courtyard Portland City Center just killed us on the A/V this time. Do they have an exclusive provider that we were required to use, as many hotels do? I mean the deal on the room rental was great, but the A/V cost kind of erased any gain there. From the pictures, I can see we had a nice setup with wireless mics for some sessions, and I guess for The Doubleclicks, a PA system with a certain amount of size and quality was required ... so maybe it was unavoidable in this case.)

In any case, for good and reasonable reasons, we have chosen Portland as our base. I wonder if we can get some of that good, university-based cost-effectiveness out of facilities at Portland State University? They have a wide variety of conference facilities, and we could probably arrange low cost accommodation through them as well:

http://www.pdx.edu/conferences/smith-memorial-student-union
http://www.pdx.edu/conferences/shc
http://www.pdx.edu/conferences/summer-conference-space

Don't get me wrong, I liked the Courtyard the first time we were there and it looks like it went smoothly this time too ... but barring a big change in the dollar and cents, if we are going to use them as our venue, we have to find a way to try and bring the A/V and food costs down if we want to end up in the black. I suppose if we are going to remain in Portland, we could consider buying some A/V assets for reuse instead of renting them every year (assuming we find a venue that would allow us to use our own equipment). Every time I look at the A/V rental price lists from a hotel's exclusive provider, I wonder if I am in the wrong line of work (they must do very well for themselves). That would mean an up front cost which should pay for itself over a few years ... which would mean up front money ... which we don't have Sad .

Food is the other major expense, and it is a tricky one, because again venues tend to require us to use their exclusive catering provider. And event catering tends to be expensive. You are almost always forced to pay a lot, regardless of whether or not the food and/or service is any good. I'm not going to argue that any of the food-based parts of our existing format are superfluous. The Cocktail Party and Keynote Dinner are both a lot of fun. Coffee and snacks during sessions are pretty indispensable and would be badly missed if absent. And giving the volunteers and speakers a lunch for their trouble has always seemed like a good idea to me. So I don't see how we can shed any of those expenses without really changing the nature of what we do. I think all we can do is try and find a venue that gives us good value, and maybe might turn a blind eye if we self-catered the volunteer lunch ($1976 for 70 lunches gives ~ $28/lunch, and suggests that maybe the Courtyard forced us to use their catering ... because that is steep).

In the end, I will come back to pricing, because that is the other half of this equation. By my rough calculations (doing a lot of averaging ... which is not totally accurate, because the total revenue is a mix of different pricing options and participation in different components of ARGFest every year), our income per paying attendee covered and exceeded our per attendee costs (namely, the materials and food) in 2011 and 2012, so that at a certain level of attendance, the surplus per attendee could have covered the fixed costs (the venue and miscellaneous expenses, although I know some of those should be per attendee [but I don't have the breakdown]).

It seems like this was not so in 2013: The amount we were charging, on average, was not even covering the per person costs. This means that no level of attendance (with that mix of passes) would have been sufficient to cover our costs and in fact, each additional attendee put us further in the red.

EDIT: An earlier version of this post also said the above was true for 2014. Now, after doing a more sophisticated analysis that moves more costs from per attendee to fixed (namely, the cost of printed materials, the majority of which does not necessarily scale with # of attendees, and the cost of food, lanyards, badges, and bags for volunteers and speakers, which paying attendees absorb, but does not increase as the number of paying attendees increases), I no longer believe that to be true. It looks like the price increases in 2014 fixed this problem, which is great. The bottom line, and relative affordability of non-university based venues remains the same, though.

Now, please understand ... I don't write this with even the hint of a suggestion that this was something that the Directing Committee did wrong in any of the recent years. I have been a participant in this process in years past, and I have tried to make this work myself with many of you on recent DCs, with about the same level of success (financially). I know that it is impossible to guess accurately beforehand how many attendees there will be, and which passes they will opt to purchase. And I know that, to a certain extent, we are obliged to accept (and are locked into) certain cost structures as soon as we sign a venue contract (which we have to do early by necessity, and often without enough information to be able to transparently see what all the costs will be).

And to be honest, it would be ridiculous to claim that there was an error made by a Directing Committee when it comes to pricing decisions ... because we have never set our prices based on what we thought our costs would be. We have always set our prices based on what we thought our attendees would tolerate, and I suspect we will continue to take this approach.

With that in mind, I think what the data we have tells us is that the price tolerance we think our attendees have ($200 - $250 for a full ARGFest pass at the most, with partial passes priced accordingly) is a lot more compatible with the costs at a university-based venue than at a hotel-based venue (which, by my rough math, requires a per full pass cost to be around $150 - $200 higher). Because of what each of those two categories of event service providers charge for catering and A/V, I think that with the right attendance, we can break even at a university-based venue at our desired price point. And at a hotel-based venue, that looks to be basically impossible unless we charge more money to attend.

(Note: I am basically assuming we do not get thousands of dollars of sponsorship, because counting on this happening is clearly not much of a business plan, and is too risky for the DC to tolerate unless it very fortunately happens well in advance.)
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:41 pm
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SpaceBass
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xnbomb, as always your post is well-considered and thorough, and you make a strong argument for returning to educational venues. Of course there are trade-offs between commercial versus educational locations, some of which are logistical and some of which may be issues only for certain classes of prospective attendees with regard to accommodations and service levels.

I don't want to start talking details just yet as I hope others will chime into this conversation. Frankly, I am a little baffled by the lack of response here on Unfiction. This community is why ARGFest was started and the main source of incentive to keep it going. Is there really no interest here anymore or is there some other reason for the dearth of traffic? Are we asking the wrong questions about how we can make ARGFest better/more attractive as an event you'd want to attend?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:04 pm
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catherwood
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee

Joined: 25 Sep 2002
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Location: Silicon Valley, CA

SpaceBass wrote:
Frankly, I am a little baffled by the lack of response here on Unfiction.

I'll toss out some questions to ponder, if that helps:
  • Was there a way to track whether the majority of your attendees have roots in this forum?
  • Has the audience for ARGs and transmedia stories moved to other forums -- or even to no forums or communities at all, as games evolve into individual experiences?
  • In terms of raw numbers, have attendance figures in the past risen along with the membership on Unfiction (or rather with the traffic generated by active members)?
  • Has the attendance at ARGfest been trending more towards people working in the industry (and/or wannabe game-makers), or still drawing the same percentage of people who just enjoy being players?

This isn't a request for specific data numbers, just wondering where the focus should be going forward. Anyone is free to chime in with opinions and ideas.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:07 pm
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xnbomb
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SpaceBass wrote:
xnbomb, as always your post is well-considered and thorough, and you make a strong argument for returning to educational venues. Of course there are trade-offs between commercial versus educational locations, some of which are logistical and some of which may be issues only for certain classes of prospective attendees with regard to accommodations and service levels.

I don't want to start talking details just yet as I hope others will chime into this conversation.

Thanks for the kind words. Maybe I've written too much, too soon ... but more than anything I would like to attend more ARGFests, so I am looking for a way to make this work. I've got a fairly nasty spreadsheet full of calculations based on the figures released for 2011-2014 that I am basing my ideas upon, and in the spirit of not getting to the details too fast, I haven't posted that mess just yet.

We've certainly discussed the commercial versus educational location issue in the past, and I'm all for the idea that we should not make design choices (if we can help it) that reduce participation. But given the situation, I would prefer an ARGFest hosted at an educational location (even if that is a barrier to participation by some) to no ARGFest at all.

To really cut to the chase, this appears to come down to how we can obtain enough funds in advance that planning can proceed with confidence. The letter originally phrased this in terms of obtaining sponsorship, but I suppose in the era of crowdsourcing funds (a la KickStarter or IndieGogo), there are other options. I suppose people interested in attending could be asked to pay for a pass well in advance; if we decide to cancel, they would get their money back.

They could even vote for venue type with their dollars: Those who want to support a hotel-based ARGFest could send in the $350 I think we'd need for a full, Early Bird pass price if we get 50 of those (this assumes we find a venue with costs comparable to 2013 and 2014, and the other important parameters [like the ratio of paying attendees to speakers etc.] remain similar). This drops to about $250 if we get 100 paying attendees ... we could conceivably refund some money once more than 50 decided to sign up (yes, that's optimistic).

Or they could elect for an educational venue at a lower price level, pledging $160, which would do the trick at an educational venue with an attendance of 50, dropping to about $130 at an attendance of 100 (this assumes we find a venue with costs comparable to 2011 and 2012, and all the rest of the assumptions of the next ARGFest being like those past ones). Again, refunds to all if we don't make the minimum ... and maybe Hotel-level pledges get refunded to the Educational-level if we get to 50, but only combined (the other situation, where we do get to the Hotel-level threshold but there are some Edu-level pledges, would require the Edu-level folks to top up to the Hotel-level or not come).

Or, it could be a sponsorship model, as originally suggested. After deciding on the desired pricing for passes, we can then figure out (more or less) how much sponsorship is needed. With past pricing and costs as a model, and assuming attendance remains more or less as before, a university venue-based ARGFest probably requires somewhere between $1500 - $3000 of sponsorship to be viable, and a hotel-based ARGFest would need more like $9000 - $12000.

I think the bottom-line message that I got from the letter from the DC is that someone is going to need to put up some dollars before another ARGFest occurs (i.e. to allow us to "secure sufficient advance funding"). Ideally, it would be sponsors with deep pockets that make this possible. But I am suggesting that it could also be attendees who want to see it happen, and are willing to put up some money. Or it could be a combination of the two. And depending on how much money we get, we might be able to afford the ideal, and if less ... the more cost-effective option. I'm trying to be very realistic about how much money is needed, and how ARGFest can get access to it in advance.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:16 am
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konamouse
Official uF Dietitian


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Or we can go back to the original idea "I'm going to Las Vegas to meet vpisteve, anyone want to join us?" which led into "let's meet up somewhere fun to get to know the faces behind the names". And included a pre-trip puzzle trail (so we knew where we were having dinner) and then a fun quest prior to dinner.

Then later that year the same idea but on the east coast (Orlando) and it was all social fun and we all paid our own way.

Next year it was NYC and got official with speakers and the museum and the first FestQuest. Back to social only with Chicago the following year.

Back then it was all about unfiction and the players (before so many of the members became game developers).

But it was cheaper when we all paid our own way.

Just reminiscing about the first decade.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:04 pm
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xnbomb
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konamouse wrote:
But it was cheaper when we all paid our own way.

Maybe. Consider a 3-night ARGFest where we get you a $50/night discount on a hotel room (we do get a good block rate for attendees), and we deliver a cocktail party, dinner and a show (the Keynote), and two days of live talks (with morning and afternoon coffee and snacks) for an Early Bird price of $175. Call this Option A.

Then compare that to staying in the same hotel room for those three nights at the best regular price (which now costs $150 more over 3 nights, or $75 more each with double occupancy). Now, if we are comparing apples to apples, you need to go out for a drink on one night. Go out for dinner and see a show on another. Do some entertaining things for two full days (maybe some that charge admission). And go visit a Starbucks four times. That is Option B.

My guess is that one could easily spend the same, or even more money on Option B. So I dunno that ARGFest is really that much more expensive just because we have lately been doing some organized stuff all together. Food, drink and fun things to do tend to cost money.

Maybe it just seems like more because it is all bundled together into a 3-digit price that you pay in advance, but sometimes I think it is actually less expensive. This might be so even if you consider for how much more expensive it really is when we use a hotel venue ... because that difference is basically the hotel making their $150 back by overpricing the other services we buy from them. In the end, they get their $200 per room night, and food and drink and fun costs what it costs.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:32 pm
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thebruce
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Copying Evan Jones' great input from the Facebook post discussion (he likely won't read any direct responses here, so if you want him to read it, reply there (and here Wink )):
https://www.facebook.com/ARGFest/posts/10152675338429083
Quote:
I figured it was best to engage socially rather than fill out the survey, as I had too many comments.

My background is that I have attended ARGFest 4 times, spoken as a keynote before and sat on panels, organized a FestQuest and sponsored a couple of times.

I love ARGFest. It's one of my 'Top Ten' events - and I haven't been to the last two of them.

(I'm going to separate my giant post into numbered chapters)


1) I will admit that Portland has been a hindrance. I can totally appreciate the desire for stability and less variables for an overworked volunteer planning committee. Here are the things standing in Portland's way:

1A) It is too far away from me (and by proxy, others). There is a reason that conference centres thrive alongside airport hubs - two flights is possible and three is a deal-breaker. Since I don't live in an airport hub community, my travel plans look like this: local flight to major hub, then a transfer to another major hub. Portland adds a third flight on to that structure, often Denver to Portland or Seattle to Portland. That third jump adds many hours to my travel schedule and I can't amortize/justify that additional 'cost' when attending a 2-3 day event. It works out to 50% transit for 50% attendance, and it's too much to justify. I understand that the PST crowd may feel differently, but unless you are trying to attract Asian attendees you are making it very hard for the European attendees (I'm on EST for those who don't know me).

1B) It is too far away from everything else. Portland is beautiful and it's on my bucket list as a family vacation. Unless one of the agencies based there invited me, there wouldn't be any business reason to choose Portland when I can book multiple days of meetings in NYC/SF/LA/etc. If an event were close to a 'media hub', then I would again amortize/justify the cost by packaging it with a business development trip into the downtown core. No doubt I'm skipping over the Portland community and doing them a disservice, but Portland is a flight from everywhere and I'd have to see the city itself as a destination for business meetings.


2) ARGFest is currently straddling two different strategies and the compromise is harming both. Here are where I see the dichotomy:

2A) ARGFest is the professional networking event to discuss best practices and make deals for the coming year. With an event like this, I am desperate to get a speaker position (see SXSW ridiculous speaker selection process), as being named as a speaker is a credential I can take into my meetings during the event. I have a suit and tie and a prepared pitch deck because I know that future clients are attending. They are eager to break into the ARG world but they know they can't do it without hiring experts, and they're looking to find them via the carefully curated panels in place of sourcing one-on-one interviews. Many people at this event expect freshly filled water jugs on each table and free cocktails sponsored by an irrelevant megacorp.

2B) ARGFest is the annual gathering of anyone obsessed with ARGs. It's a rare chance for fans to meet each other in person (and have reunions) and a chance to talk 'off the record' with puppetmasters (is this still a word?) in a debrief after games. You can meet your heroes and make friends, but there is very little structure. Often this will be set in a bar/restaurant or a conference room without a stage and would involve 'meet and greet' activities or casual talks (with lots of debate). There would probably be a game because how could we miss such a great opportunity!

With 2A), my motivation is clear - I spent $2,000 travelling to ARGFest each year because I get $20,000 in business deals from the connections I make there. With 2B), my motivation is also clear - I go as a pilgrimage for me (and maybe some professional benefit, but probably not even break even). Although 2B) also costs $2000 I can justify it if I piggyback it on to a family vacation or another business trip (See issue 1A/B).


3) I started attending ARGFest when it was a lot more like example 2B. I loved the travelling nature of it because it could push my own travel plans to include ARGFest (Hey honey, why don't we think about San Francisco this summer?). And despite the casual nature of that format, I posit that I learned more in those deep discussions around restaurant tables than I have since in formal panels. It may be entirely nostalgia (and Brian Clark will accuse me of forcing a 'scene'), but I think it's smarter for ARGFest to revert back to a more casual format with the sales pitch that there are going to be moments of facilitated discussion that will be on a MUCH more advanced level than any 'sales pitch to future clients', including the fact that it'll be under the 'cone of silence.

One of the reasons I think casual is a stronger long-term strategy is because it's dramatically cheaper. I would not be spending a dime on A/V Equipment nor Staging nor providing any food/drink. I think the value for the organizers is that they need to find spaces that can accommodate 200 attendees and explain that each of them will pay their own food/drink bill (or pay an entrance fee to cover it). The admission fee you charge goes mainly towards operating costs for the website and the organizing committee, and the big-ticket costs of bringing in a guest speaker who wouldn't come otherwise (this should be offset by sponsorship). I would cut total costs below $2000, and use the other $5000 in ticket revenue to operate/market/enhance the event.


4) I would challenge the organizers to listen to the feedback "We didn't hear about it soon enough" and "We didn't know it was happening". I have learned some hard lessons about marketing events and that is the UNBELIEVABLE inertia that must be overcome. I am planning my 2015 summer conference schedule NOW, and I wish I were joking/exaggerating. The proper time to announce ARGFest details for the next year is on the last day of this year's, complete with a booking website. I know that's a huge request but you're asking the hard questions so I'm giving them out for free. Don't worry about the hard things like announcing speakers, but get the dates and the location locked down and announce the price immediately.

Once you've done that, start a 1-year email/social campaign and do NOT rely on social alone. My social media feed has diversified - once upon a time it was 75% ARGs but now I'd say it's 5-10%, easily missed in a busy work quarter when I'm not checking regularly. The conferences that I know well are emailing the stink out of me. You know the old adage that someone needs to have '11 touchpoints' with a product before buying? That's you now - you email me ELEVEN times in advance of ARGFest. Maybe I unsubscribe but then you know your email list is that much more dedicated. Also - anyone goes on that email list - attendees from ANY past year & people who sign up on the website. It's time to be shameless about it.

For the record, I received an email on November 19th last year (perfect timing for a 3rd touchpoint, but at that point city was unannounced to me), June 9th (too late, summer planned out, should be announcing speakers instead) & July 9th (re: sponsorship - also unfortunately too late for me). The first and third contact were direct connections and the second was via ARGNet, which means I received ZERO promotional emails about ARGFest 2014. I find it hard to believe I'm not on a mailing list for the organizers - I should be and I want to be.


5) Here are the value propositions to me as a sponsor:

5A) My company gains a lot of 'social capital' for paying some of the bills for an event that is for fans. That means I have to believe that the attendees are influential people in their community and that they'll feel positively towards me in the future. This means I'm hoping that they will share our latest projects (more than just a random company) and they'd be more likely to participate in upcoming projects that need leadership to succeed. I'm paying for the beer tonight so that when I screw up I'll get the benefit of the doubt from fans, and I can count on their support when a project needs a boost. To sell this to others, you need to play up the narrative "Attendees of ARGFest are the curators of quality ARGs" - getting them on your side is worth sponsorship.

5B) ARGFest is going to promote my company, and this will have the same effect as being a speaker: it will establish my company as one of the 'go-to' choices for bespoke ARG creation with clients. We know that every single day someone new discovers ARGs and goes through the same 'hype cycle'. If we're lucky, they will decide that ARGs are right for them and will want to seek out experts. ARGFest needs to demonstrate that they are the first place these newcomers look, and that their sponsors get new sales leads as a result of the high profile ARGFest affords them to a niche audience. Show off your search rankings and try to track these connections - if someone contacts the ARGFest organizing committee as arbiters of good ARG design, show that you're recommending the sponsoring companies. If I spend $2000 on sponsoring ARGFest, is there a 10% chance that I'll get a $20K contract? (If so, then I consider that breaking even!)


Okay I think that's enough for one day. I say all of this to demonstrate how much I want ARGFest to succeed long-term. Thanks for the opportunity.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:17 pm
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mysteryjones
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Joined: 21 Apr 2003
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Location: London

thebruce wrote:
Copying Evan Jones' great input from the Facebook post discussion (he likely won't read any direct responses here, so if you want him to read it, reply there (and here Wink )):
https://www.facebook.com/ARGFest/posts/10152675338429083


The old password still works! It's been ages since I've been on here, but I'm happy to engage the conversation here if it's more suitable (that Facebook opus was pretty obnoxious). I think I'll still get notifications if someone wants to PM me anything.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:27 pm
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mysteryjones
Veteran


Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 89
Location: London

I also realize that in my haste that I'm overstating the ROI - I should have said that spending $2000 for a 10% chance of $20K PROFIT is break even. That's a big difference.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:42 pm
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Macar
Greenhorn

Joined: 03 Nov 2014
Posts: 5

I apologize if I'm being dense, but was there ever an official outcome to this? Is there going to be a 2015 Argfest?

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:12 pm
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Pixiestix
Resident Angry Midget


Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 2456
Location: Tomorrow's Talk Studios

An announcement will be coming shortly.
_________________
I don't believe in Chaotic Fiction, I only believe in ARG.
Remember kiddles, bad PMs get the wrath of the Vulva Puppets
PROUDLY owned by Gizmo, the wonder ARG pug!


PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:46 pm
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Crescent
Decorated


Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 281

uk

wondering if there would be any interested - enough interest even, for a UK based argfest??
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matter of fact I could leave....

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:50 pm
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Pixiestix
Resident Angry Midget


Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 2456
Location: Tomorrow's Talk Studios

http://forums.unfiction.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1049763#1049763
_________________
I don't believe in Chaotic Fiction, I only believe in ARG.
Remember kiddles, bad PMs get the wrath of the Vulva Puppets
PROUDLY owned by Gizmo, the wonder ARG pug!


PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:38 pm
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