[rose]

oh man this is a tough question. I hate ads. I would much rather the users, including me, pay for the service in some way. I really think this should be a community supported forum. I've always felt that unfiction is a community, an important community to me. I think that part of the responsibility we have as members of the community is to help pay for this forum --not that I've done as much as I should either--but I think maybe we need to consider that keeping this forum going is our job, and not something we should farm out to whatever advertiser wants to buy time or space.

I missed everything about argfest, but i guess there is no way to have an additional 5 bucks for unfiction?

How about something like the PBS annual drive? If we had a goal amount, then we could work towards raising it. Maybe contributors could get something cute, but I think a name on a list should be enough. We could do a virtual bake sale with the brownies.

I would much prefer we try to raise the money here ourselves and exhaust all those options, before we go outside to advertisers

[catherwood]

jessie1326 wrote:

I wonder if a "members-only" forum would be effective. My major question would be about what ends up on the members-only section versus what's still available [outside it].

Good content will be leaked. And bad content will be leaked if only to make fun of the people paying to access it. Nothing will stay behind the pay-only wall forever.

But while premium content might not be a good fit, premium viewing modes would be a step in the right direction. I do like the suggestion of tasteful and relevant adverts for the masses, and the option to pay to be able to turn them off. Can I pay to turn off avatars and images in signatures too?

[ljm]

Anyways, as an admin and staff member of another site, we pretty much cover our hosting with our ad revenue. And we have quite a bit of bandwidth because our site is extremely photo heavy. And our ad presence isn't nauseating.

Feel free to check it out:
www.westcoaster.net
And the forums:
www.westcoaster.net/community

That ONE ad at the top of the site basically pays for most of our hosting, and it doesn't seem to bother anybody.

I, too, don't think ads are a problem if they're done in a way that is easy to ignore.

[enaxor]

October wrote:

I second the yearly (or twice-yearly) fundraiser drive idea suggested upthread. The fund-raising event should be widely advertised here on the site so that people could be aware of it. An ARGN article on the fundraiser would also be helpful. The "this week sponsored by" recognition is only for donations of $100 or more (as it should be), and I think some people might feel that if they can't afford to donate $100, their donation wouldn't help much. We know that's not true - every little bit helps. Because of this, I think a site-wide fundraising donation drive would be very helpful. Make everyone aware that even five bucks will help. Put the donor names or aliases (if they so choose) on a special recognition page regardless of the contribution amount during the fundraiser. I think you'll see a good turnout. We have a lot of members; even $5 from half of them would be a good thing for unFiction, and I think you would see even more than that from several.

This was done a couple of years ago and as I recall it did help. The problem, is only a very small percentage of members contribute and they're the only ones that continue to contribute over and over.

I know you don't want to use advertising to generate revenue, but I would be willing to pay a subscription fee to not see the ads. Many websites use this as a way to pay for services, paid members don't see the ads, non-paying members do.

[konamouse]

I like pixie's idea about subscription to have a signature.
Health-o-meter is also a good idea - folks need to know the state of the bank, when it goes low you might get more subscriptions/sponsorship.
Non-flashing banner for new or ongoing game might also help your revenue stream.
Unfortunately, T-shirts & swag auction/raffles have been poor profit/high workload in the past.

IMHO: No to separate private forum (no perceived benefit and creates even more of a class system). No to PM posting in character area. I like that uF has remained a character-free OOG area.

[louiscontaldi]

A few ideas from my head:
I agree, donations here are really only recognized with things over $100. Is there anyway we can make a donation/thermometer widget? the more you donate the closer you get to the next level and get something new at each level (personalize name, Order of the Trout, maybe a small Order of the Trout you can add to the persons avatar picture, etc etc). Also have a page dedicated to people who donate. Maybe also a list of the top donators, Something like "All donations are important to us at uF but a special thank you to these people" deal, with the names of all the other donators below, how much they donated, maybe their own thermometers.

I like the idea of having PMs advertise as well. I wouldnt mind seeing games on the banners or sides, as long as they are related and not flashing obnoxiously or trying to sell me an ipod.

And ARG donation week is also a great idea. See if you can get other comapnies to help match the amount you can get in donations. You know, all those big ones like 42 and other speakers at ARGfest. Raffle off swag that week, come out with special tshirts that you can collectivly get money for an order a group price at a better rate, make it a contest.

A more interesting idea, how about we play a game? I know it is frowned upon but how about taking some of the best PM minds on this forum and making a game created by unfiction and making it a pay to play game, or something where people would need to buy IG merch to find clues.

This all said, I also wouldnt mind paying a $20 yearly fee or $2 monthly fee.

[degravedi]

I know you don't like the idea of adding advertising, but as a user I can definitely say that I'd prefer ads to not having unFiction!

Now that doesn't necessarily mean you have to automatically go to those annoying flashing noisy banners that drive everyone insane. But having people pay for ARG related advertisements might be in everyone's interest. For example: having tasteful game related ads, like promoting the new Tron movie, Super 8, or any of the large campaigns for new video games. I don't think that anything that already has an ARG/viral/extended experience attached to it would be viewed as too annoying for users. And even small PMs might like the chance to draw more players to their games. It would be more like supporting the movement than just plunking ads on the pages. At least in my humble opinion. And even if users find this too invasive, a premium membership could give them the option to turn off the ads?

That said, maybe also a pay-to-enter raffle of good swag items (you can even ask for prize donations!) per month/every few months ect. Say each entry would be $1. So you could enter a single ticket for only $1, but users who contribute more to the site would get more tickets/chances to win. So a $20 donor would get 20 entrances and thus a better chance of winning.

[jessie1326]

natas wrote:

October wrote: I'm of the opinion that charging a subscription price for forum use would essentially kill unFiction. People would migrate somewhere else. What about a subscription model that only would allow members to access "premium content" (whatever that may be). For example, another forum I help moderate incorporates this. The paying members have access to a "members only" forum. and get discounts on some of the site offerings such as hosting accounts and web design rates. This just came off the top of my head as it's 2:30 here and I am out of coffee, so forgive me if it isn't something viable.

I wonder if a "members-only" forum would be effective. My major question would be about what ends up on the members-only section versus what's still available here. I think it would either be: (1) nothing of interest, meaning nobody wants to pay for access; or (2) everything of interest, meaning it's no "better" than switching to a pure subscription model.

I think that some kind of premium features would be great, but with the way uF works, I'm just not sure that exclusive forums are the way to go. On other sites I belong to, I have paid for "premium" features like extra stat tracking - maybe paying members could have extra profile features, such as the option to list participation rates in various game forums? I hate to contribute to the Facebooking of the internet, but what about a friends list for premium members? Or- stealing ideas from yet another source- maybe premium members could be eligible to earn special badges? So that rather than, say, a badge you essentially purchase with a donation, there could be a whole set of "achievements"? Not sure if that would work around here or not.

Okay, as I'm brainstorming I'm thinking of other things - probably they're not any good, but I'll keep putting them out there. I think a crowd-sourced auction could work really well. Put out a call in advance for members to submit their own auction items - I'd think you'd have no problem getting some PMs to offer up their own game items, plus I think you'd get all kinds of great ideas from the players around here. I can imagine our members offering original works of art, custom-built puzzles, "I'll make an ARG where you're the main character", special trail-head privileges, web-design lessons, free services for PMs... So we could have a lot of fun coming up with things to auction off as well as purchasing creative things, with all profits going to uF.

[slinkydge]

something that works well in the UK are STICKERS!! You post up a template or something so users can print out a sheet/page of stickers which they go round sticking on public transport, walls and vehicles etc... free advertising basically - then you push for minimum donations for every new sign up say $5?

[Lysithea]

SpaceBass wrote:

what about clearly delineated in-game or sponsored subforums for games where the PMs of those games could pay to post in character, with character accounts clearly labeled as such?

clearly delineated are the key words here, and I think that this idea could work, but I don't know how many PMs would pay for the privilege.

How about a paid-members-only Order of the Trout forum section? I think that many people may be curious enough to pay for access.

I think that the amazon affiliate program is a good idea. I order from Amazon occasionally and I would be happy to click on an unfiction referral link. A lot of Flynn Lives players have an interest in the new TRON merchandise, and some people would be ordering it from Amazon anyway. I realise this is a form of advertising, but I think it would be welcome in this particular context.

Are there fundraising programs like http://www.sockittoyou.com.au/ that you could implement? People get order forms for socks/everyday items/gifts from unfiction, but pay to have it delivered to their own homes. unfiction then gets a commission cheque (socks are a good item because people will often buy them again the next year).

I can see that t-shirts aren't that profitable by the time you take out shipping/handling/production costs (or pay a middleman like cafepress to do it for you). Much as I would like to encourage t-shirt designs with better kerning, this won't solve the immediate problem.

[natas]

October wrote:

I'm of the opinion that charging a subscription price for forum use would essentially kill unFiction. People would migrate somewhere else.

What about a subscription model that only would allow members to access "premium content" (whatever that may be). For example, another forum I help moderate incorporates this. The paying members have access to a "members only" forum. and get discounts on some of the site offerings such as hosting accounts and web design rates.

This just came off the top of my head as it's 2:30 here and I am out of coffee, so forgive me if it isn't something viable.

[Pixiestix]

October wrote:

I'm of the opinion that charging a subscription price for forum use would essentially kill unFiction. People would migrate somewhere else.

Only if it became ONLY subscription. if general content remains the same {ability to read & post}, but if the subscription was for "perks" so to speak, such as signatures, or custom titles, or even prefered bandwidth, i think the majoprity of people wouldn't even notice their lack of perks - but hey, those of us who want them would pay a small fee and help uf slightly. of course, i am partly suggesting that in a selfish "what else can we do to discourage spammers", and in my mind if we enforce a "if you break the rules outlines in the agreement, you do not get your money back" then lets say a spammer *actually* paid for the right to use a sig - we delete it, keep the money. Highly doubtful they would pay, but none the less.

[October]

Pixie, that was sort of my thought on the t-shirt thing - that even if a shirt doesn't directly use logos from the game, just the fact that it references the game means that it's using the creator's IP. This would be extremely problematic for uF, legally speaking.

As for PMs posting "in character" here - I hope that never happens. And even if it's allowed, I will never play a game by a PM who has to post here in that way in order to advance his/her game. This is a place where we discuss and dissect ARGs and collect information. I agree with Pixie - the whole nature of the forums would change if they moved from being OOG to being potentially IG. And I don't think it would be for the better. Not to mention that it would make enforcing the rule much more difficult - mods would have to actively remove posts from non-paying PMs that violated the rule, and they would have to keep track of who was paying, what game they belonged to, etc. It could be done - but that's more work for our volunteers who are already so busy.

I'm of the opinion that charging a subscription price for forum use would essentially kill unFiction. People would migrate somewhere else.

[Pixiestix]

If i am a pm, and you decide to create and SELL a shirt based on my content, i'd be pretty miffed, because this could go 1 of 2 ways. Either you could flat out rip me off {a la Todd Goldman} *OR* you could make the cheap fake concert tee shirts that no one would EVER dare wear in front of the band. Either way, tacky & rude.

Yes, i made a shirt to wear to my first argfest that yes was about the first arg i ever played. Did i offer to sell said shirt? no. Did i offer to make said shirt for anyone else? no. Do i think i could be sued for said shirt? no. Do i think if someone really wanted to they could sue you for selling a shirt made from their IP? yes, yes i do - and giving the profits to UF in my mind makes UF somehow liable. While i don't know the actual legal ramifications that could happen from this.... I can't say i'm real thrilled with the suggestion. [/0.02]

I can't say i'm too keen on PMs posting in character, because i like having out of game forums. even if these chars are paying for the right, suddenly the forums take on a new vibe. Plus, the same ones who try to break those rules now will continue to not pay and try to break the rules.

that said, i'd gladly pay a 1 time fee to keep my custom title {angry midget}. or I'd gladly pay a subscription price to use the forums within reason. I'd really love for sig's to become part of the subscription price {with the same sig rules that are already in place, and if you break the rules you don't get that money back}. It would cut down on sig spammers as a bonus {or at the very least give us money from them}.

[Rogi Ocnorb]

And, I'll apologize for my earlier post.
I just keyed in on the fact that you specifically mentioned the very site space had contracted through.

I might be guilted into donating more often if I saw the current state of affairs on some kind of health-o-meter that didn't take up too much space.

If we're just throwing stuff out there and since the idea of donations related to certain games has come up... Would it be feasible to change the background colors for active games using some kind of algorithm that considers received monies associated with the game against number of unique posters or total posts for said game? "Healthier" games get higher contrast ratios or more attractive hues. It might add a competitive aspect to the fora and would, if adopted, be kind of self sustaining.

Pretty silly, huh?